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Major Verb/Perf IQ discrepancy and language problem


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Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 2
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Posted Mar 04, 2006 at 1:51:03 PM
Subject: Major Verb/Perf IQ discrepancy and language problem

Hi everybody. I am a 25 year old male who seems to be struggling with an undiagnosed language disorder. When I speak, I am limited to short sentences and have extreme difficulty telling even simple stories and descriptions. It's like when I think of saying something and say it, the next thought in my head is random and unrelated to the previous thought. This has left me socially paralyzed as I cannot maintain conversations for a significant length of time. Academically, I am surprisingly okay. I am in the second half of my senior year with a gpa of 3.1. Writing assignments have always been stressful but nothing I couldn't handle.

Throughout my childhood, I have exhibited disruptive behavior and difficulty socializing with peers. When I was 8, the school officials had me take a Wechsler test (the results I list below) and the tester deduced that I had some of "Emotional Handicap". Whatever. This was the eighties.

I have never realized the scope of my deficiencies until I was 19 and in the military. The stress resulted in a nervous breakdown that got me discharged with a flimsy diagnosis of Avoidant Personality Disorder. My difficulties with speeking and socializing have not abated and I am currently seeing a VA psychiatrist after another breakdown (this time caused by party food spiked with LSD. That's what friends are for :roll:). I have told her repeatedly about my difficulties but she seems to believe it is anxiety related. I will see her in two weeks and demand a referral to see a speech therapist (wish I decided on that sooner but I'm not the professional :? ).

Here are the results from the WISC-R I took when I was 8.

Verbal IQ: 88 Prorated Verbal IQ: 98
Performance IQ: 135(!)
Full Scale IQ: 111 Prorated Full Scale IQ: 118

VERBAL TESTS
Information 10
Similiarites 12
Vocabulary 7
Comprehension 2(!)

PERFORMANCE TESTS
Picture Completion 12
Picture Arrangement 17
Block Design 19
Object Assembly 14
Coding 13

I'm not looking for an online diagnosis but it would be great to compare notes and recieve some insight.

Thanks.

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William
Joined Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 5

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Posted:Mar 07, 2006 6:01:10 AM

I don't have much to say, other than I know exactly what you're going through. I have the same problems expressing myself clearly, and it's tough.

Best of luck,

William

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Sue
Joined Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 1845

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Posted:Mar 07, 2006 9:37:06 PM

Okay, first of all, attitude/ emotions/ anxiety... whatever form they take, they can really make interpreting the tests harder. Of course, it's a heck of a lot easier to score *lower* than you should than it is to score higher.

And the disclaimer... I ain't no exerpt Or an expert :-) Or, I'm enough of one to know that never seeing you, just reading a few paragraphs and an ancient Weschler profile... this is NOT a professional reading. Treat it like that lady doing cosmic energy readings over the crystal ball... and that's assuming you don't give much credence to that

My off-the-cuff thoughts would be things like: I bet you didn't like that feeling of being on the interrogation stand and drilled for that right answer, especially if they sort of toss values in. (At that age, it could have been as simple as having something that happened that day or week that upset your sense of the world... which with gifted kiddos happens often and is more traumatic for 'em 'cause they just perceive too much and are too smart to take a pat answer.) When there's a score in the toilet like that comprehension score (which measures social type questions ... what's the right thing to in X situation) it usually means that the person pretty much shut down. I see it happen *most* on the Coding test; but I suspect that since your pencil got to do the talking on that one, you were a lot less likely to lose the focus. You were above average there even though it's timed and full of arbitrarily assigned symbols and meanings - but that means there's no "The Right And Proper Way," it's just a puzzle. YOu seem to really *like* puzzles :-)
On questions that let you be a little creative, suddenly you got smarter. "Similarities" is 'way higher than Vocabulary... vocabulary being the one-right-answer "what's this mean, SIR!" and "Similarities" being far more verbally sophisticated analysis of relationships between words and ideas. You were at the ceiling for block design, which is pretty much remembering complex visual patterns.... like puzzles :-) THe low score, no surprise, is the one that brings in "what do you expect to see inyour culture in your life," the picture completion. You were still above average, but I sense an early onset sense of rebellion against the (so often arbitrary and boring, or just plain WRONG) Way THings Are Supposed To Be. SOmetimes that gets called an emotional handicap. (Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's what I would consider a predictable reaction to a world you have no control over.)
Give her some time to look for the right speech therapist. You're not looking for somebody to teach you how to pronounce your "r's," after all... or even a cut-and-dried language processing problem... and you're not a kid. Since she's probably not going to be ready for that, she's not going to have been able to "do her homework" and talk to her associates and get a good recommendation. The stress and anxiety *are* a part of the picture... if a totally normal person is put under enough stress to cause a breakdown, then you still have to deal with those scars.
Now, all this schtuff is just so much bs in a way... I've never met you and I"m not a psych and... and... and... it shoujld be worth every penny you spent on it...

Sue J, webmastress www.resourceroom.net

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Avi
Joined Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 2

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Posted:Mar 08, 2006 12:22:56 AM

Quote d8de680958="Sue":

Okay, first of all, attitude/ emotions/ anxiety... whatever form they take, they can really make interpreting the tests harder. Of course, it's a heck of a lot easier to score *lower* than you should than it is to score higher.

Quote d8de680958="Sue":

And the disclaimer... I ain't no exerpt Or an expert :-) Or, I'm enough of one to know that never seeing you, just reading a few paragraphs and an ancient Weschler profile... this is NOT a professional reading. Treat it like that lady doing cosmic energy readings over the crystal ball... and that's assuming you don't give much credence to that

Quote d8de680958="Sue":

My off-the-cuff thoughts would be things like: I bet you didn't like that feeling of being on the interrogation stand and drilled for that right answer, especially if they sort of toss values in. (At that age, it could have been as simple as having something that happened that day or week that upset your sense of the world... which with gifted kiddos happens often and is more traumatic for 'em 'cause they just perceive too much and are too smart to take a pat answer.) When there's a score in the toilet like that comprehension score (which measures social type questions ... what's the right thing to in X situation) it usually means that the person pretty much shut down. I see it happen *most* on the Coding test; but I suspect that since your pencil got to do the talking on that one, you were a lot less likely to lose the focus. You were above average there even though it's timed and full of arbitrarily assigned symbols and meanings - but that means there's no "The Right And Proper Way," it's just a puzzle. YOu seem to really *like* puzzles :-)
On questions that let you be a little creative, suddenly you got smarter. "Similarities" is 'way higher than Vocabulary... vocabulary being the one-right-answer "what's this mean, SIR!" and "Similarities" being far more verbally sophisticated analysis of relationships between words and ideas. You were at the ceiling for block design, which is pretty much remembering complex visual patterns.... like puzzles :-) THe low score, no surprise, is the one that brings in "what do you expect to see inyour culture in your life," the picture completion. You were still above average, but I sense an early onset sense of rebellion against the (so often arbitrary and boring, or just plain WRONG) Way THings Are Supposed To Be. SOmetimes that gets called an emotional handicap. (Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's what I would consider a predictable reaction to a world you have no control over.)
Give her some time to look for the right speech therapist. You're not looking for somebody to teach you how to pronounce your "r's," after all... or even a cut-and-dried language processing problem... and you're not a kid. Since she's probably not going to be ready for that, she's not going to have been able to "do her homework" and talk to her associates and get a good recommendation. The stress and anxiety *are* a part of the picture... if a totally normal person is put under enough stress to cause a breakdown, then you still have to deal with those scars.
Now, all this schtuff is just so much bs in a way... I've never met you and I"m not a psych and... and... and... it shoujld be worth every penny you spent on it...

So the jist of what you are saying is that the test results are meaningless in the context of my problem. I figured as much. The tester did deduce that I was suffering from an emotional handicap and also recommended language evaluation which I don't think was ever done. The VA hospital that I go to for my mental health appointments has its own audiology department.
Thanks a lot.

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A person
Joined Apr 22, 2005
Posts: 119

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Posted:Mar 09, 2006 11:50:28 AM

Hang in there dude! you have a solid IQ and the potential to achieve whatever you put your mind to doing.

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