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Help 5th grader in math (long)


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Joined: Feb 25, 2008
Posts: 3
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Posted Feb 25, 2008 at 9:29:17 AM
Subject: Help 5th grader in math (long)

I have an 11 year old daughter that I suspect has NLD along with visual perceptual problems. I requested an evaluation for an IEP last year and was told there was not sufficient proof for an IEP. Fast forward to this year, and now daughter has an F in both Reading and Math this year. I have requested a reevaluation for an IEP, but understand this is a timely process.

I'm looking for suggestions on how I as a parent can help, as well as how to get the school to recognize the severity of the problem. It seems most of the math testing for achievement is not comparable with the math work done on a daily basis in class.

We had a 2nd independent neuropsych evaluation done, which I'm still waiting for a printed report. Per phone conversations with evaluator, he feels strongly ADHD along with working memory problems. Medication is going to be a tricky issue as daughter also has Cyclothymia (bipolar disorder) and many ADHD medications can cause worse bipolar symptoms.

These are the problems noted
Knows math facts but very slow on math drills. Better at multiplication and division facts as compared to addition / subtraction. Still frequently counts on fingers.

Problems with measurement or interpreting graphic information (ie ruler, compass, or graphic information). More errors when the graph only has tick marks and she has to determine how much each tick mark represents.

Problems retaining knowledge on new math skills.

Frequent errors. Decimal in wrong places, lining up numbers incorrectly. Significant struggles with multiple column (three or more) of subtraction, multiplication, or division.

Problems with borrowing, especially with zeros in middle of numbers.

Struggling with multiplication with bottom number with 2 or more digits.

Often will get confused in the middle of multiple step problem and start doing a different operation (ie in middle of a long multiplication problem may start adding the last columns).

_____________________

Tests done last year

WISC-IV
Verbal Comprehension: composite 93
Similarities 6
Vocabulary 12
Comprehension 8
(Information) 13
(Word Reasoning) 14

Perceptual Reasoning: Composite Score 84
Block Design 8
Picture Concepts 8
Matrix Reasoning 6
(Picture Compeletion) 9

Working Memory Composite Score 86
Digit Span 6
Letter Number Sequencing 9
(Arithmetic) 7

Processing Speed 106
Coding 10
Symbol Search 12
(Cancellation) 16
_________________________

Woodcock Johnson III
Broad Reading 114
Broad Math 97
Broad Written Language 111

Math Calc Skills 95
Written Expression 108
Academic Skills 106
Academic Fluency 120
Academic Apps 95

Woodcock Johnson Achievement Tests, Form B
Letter Work Identification 106
Reading Fluency 128
Calculation 96
Math Fluency 93
Spelling 112
Writing Fluency 116
Passage Comprehension 92
Applied Problems 98
Writing Samples 95

_____________________________
NEPSY
Design Copying 13
Arrows 8
Comprehension of instruction 8

_______________________________
CTOPP

Elision ss 10, 50%
Blending Words, SS 9, 37%
Memory for Digits, SS 4, 2%
Rapid Digit Naming, SS 15, 95%
Nonword Repetition, SS 8, 25%
Rapid Letter Naming, ss 15, 95%

Phonological Awareness, 97 Composite, SS 42%
Phonological Memory, 76 Composite, SS 5%
Rapid Naming, 130 Composite, 98%

_______________________________

Kaufman Test of Education Achievement, II

Math Concepts and Applications 93
Math Computation 90

_____________________

Recent math problems missed, and type of problem

This is a list of questions missed on recent assignments and quizes

Quiz 9A, Score 10/20 (50%)

#2, Measurement involving ruler
#3, Multiple Digit Subtraction with regrouping
#4, Correct answer, but she put answer in the box for problem 3
#10, Multiple Digit Subtraction with regrouping
#11, Multiplication with decimal, correct numbers, decimal in wrong place
#12, Multiplication, incorrect answer
#14, Correct answer, but numbers difficult to read
#15, Correct answer, but numbers difficult to read
#19, Multiple Digit Addition with carryover
#20, Correct numerical answer, but question asked how many dimes, instead answered stating nickels

Lesson 50, 17/29 (58%)
#8, Convert Fraction 7/8 to %, guessed at fraction, stating 10%
#9, Long Division, Started problem correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
#10, Story Problem, Find total and then average. She missed average
#12, Multiply 2 2digit numbers, (34.28 * 60). only multiplied the 6 *34, skipping the .28
#13, Multiply 2 2digit numbers, only multiplied the ones column
#22, 2 step problem, only did step 1. Distributive property. (10 *43 + 2*43), only did 10*43
#23, Time problem involving months
#24, Round off number to nearest 100
#25 Story problem involving traveling and distance, no clue how she came up with answer
#27, story problem, find average
#28, Wrote the number 320,000 as 300,20,000
#29 Find largest 3 digit number divisible by 6, found largest 3 digit number but was not divisible by 6

Lesson 58, score 17/29 (58%)
#1, Skipped Problem
#2, Copied wrong number down (24 instead of 21) so resulted in incorrect answer
#3, Convert 3/5 to %, didnít know how to do, just guessed, didnít complete 2nd part of question
Using a % to determine answer
#5, Place value, asked to find number with 500,000 but answer with 500
#8, Long division, with 2 digit divisor, Started correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
#9, Long division, with 2 digit divisor, error in multiplication
#13, Long Multiplication (679 * 989), only multiplied ones column
#20, Fraction problem, wrote down wrong denominator
#21, Division problem, missing zero in answer, told to show answer with fraction, but only did remainder
#22, Fraction 6 ĺ asked to identify denominator, instead identified whole number 6
#28, Use a fraction ĺ of 100 to determine solution. Guessed at answer with 20.
#39, Convert number word to actual number, answer missing last 0

Lesson 60, score 16/29 (55%)
#1, Story Problem, asked to find # total students, she solved for total number of girls
#7, Convert 7 lb 12 oz to total # ounces, determined ounces in 6 lbs,
#11. Fraction, Subtract fraction from whole number
#14, 3 Digit multiplication. multiplied all numbers but had 2 errors in adding/multiplying
#17, 2 step problem. First find fraction, then convert Fraction to percentage. did not do 2nd step.
#19. Long Division with 2 digit divisor, started correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
#20, Multiply 2 2digit numbers, missing a zero. Answer 120 instead of 1200
#21, Long Division with 2 digit divisor, started correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
#24, Look at number line, count number of tick marks and determine fraction. Answer should have been 3/10, had 3/11.
#25, Time subtraction, incorrect borrowing with minutes,
#27, Interpret information in Frequency Table, was just guessing answers,
#28, Interpret information in Frequency Table, was just guessing answers,
#29, Interpret information in Frequency Table, was just guessing answers,

Had redo Lesson 60
She missed all the problems listed above, except #7, which she got right
#1, after being asked how many girls there were, was able to figure out answer
#14,17, 19, 20, 21, 24, thought she knew what she was doing, but had made errors
#11, 25, 27, 28, 29 didnít know how to do, and needed to be shown how to solve the problems

Lesson 61, Score 17/30 (57%)
5, Multiply 2 digit number by 2 digit number, missing 0 at end
6. Equivalent fractions
10. Subtract fraction from whole number
12. Add 4 fractions same denominator
20. Long division, subtraction error
21. Long division, subtraction error
22. Multiplication 3 digit by 2 digit, missing 0 at end
26. Subtraction error
27. Asked to identify angle, but only gave part of letters, should have been PWR, stated WR
29. Interpret information in a line plot graph
30. Interpret information in a line plot graph
31. Interpret information in a line plot graph

Lesson 62, score 16/30 (53%)
4. Told to shade 1/3 of circle, she shaded 2/3. Did not find fraction not shaded or % not shaded.
5. Estimate the product. Of 39 and 41, should be 1600, her answer 100.
6. Subtract fraction from whole number.
11. Convert Whole number to equivalent fraction and whole number
13. Add 4 5 digit numbers
14. Subtract a 5 digit number from a 5 digit number
17. Multiply 2 3 digit numbers, only multiplied the ones column
19. Long division by a 2 digit number. wrote problem down incorrectly. She also had errors in how she solved this problem, when she subtract 96-60 she came up with 67.
23. Using a ruler showing mm, determine perimeter. Should have been 15*4=60, she had 10*4=40
25. Time addition. incorrectly wrote one of the times., plus she doesnít know how to borrow minutes from the hour
26. Probability. Wrong denominator
27. Probability. Wrong denominator
28 Identify Angle. only identified the end points, not the middle point
29. Estimate the perimeter. found Ĺ of the perimeter,

Lesson 63, score 18/30 (60%), lost, turned in late
9. Subtract fraction from a whole number, she did not know how to do, Had 7 - 1/3 = 6/7
10. Subtract fraction from a whole number,
11. Subtract fraction from a whole number
14. 5 Digit number subtraction
15. Multiply 3 digit number by 2 digit number. When starting hundreds row, instead of multiplying, added the first two numbers.
17. Division with remainder. She had correct #, but book requested remainder as fraction, she had as remainder.
18. Long division with 2 digit divisor, started correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
19. Long division with 2 digit divisor, started correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
23. Solve fraction problem, then find percent. Correct fraction, but didnít find %
24. Put 3 fractions in order from least to greatest. She organized by denominator
26. Chart involving Frequency and Tallyís. She incorrectly counted so chart numbers were wrong.
27. Using protractor, find angle degrees

Lesson 63, Redo
2. Subtract fraction from whole number
Missed again 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 18, 19, Ö. Didnít finish the rest of assignment
Correct this time: 17,

Lesson 64, score
12. Time subtraction problem. Doesnít understand how to borrow minutes from hours
13. Solving for the unknown, added numbers instead of subtracting
14. Solve problem for the unknown, involving a negative unknown
17. Long division, division error
21. Subtract fraction from a whole number, she doesnít know how to do
23. Subtract fraction from a whole number, she doesnít know how to do
26. Perimeter of equilateral triangle using the measurement on a ruler
27. Probability
28 Interpret information in Frequency Table, doesnĎt understand what different areas indicate
29. Interpret information in Frequency Table
30. Interpret information in Frequency Table.

Lesson 65, 18/30, (57%)
2. Story problem used irrelevant information
3. Asked for perimeter of rectangle, instead gave the area
4. Convert 1/4th of a yard to a percent.
5. Time subtraction, 8:30 - 7:45.
10. Order 4 fractions from smallest to largest
11. Factors. Asked to identify HOW MANY factors 10 has. She stated: 1,2
12. Long Division
18. Long Division. Her remainder was greater than the number being divided by.
19. Long Division with 2 digit divisor, started correctly, but didnít complete last subtraction or find remainder
20. Long Division, multiplication error
22. Subtract a Whole number with fraction from a whole number. 5 - 3 3/8 = 2 3/8

Lesson 65, Redo, 15/30 = 50%, which is less than her original score

Missed again, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, 19, 20, 22
Problems missed previously that she got right 12, 18
Others missed
7, Miscounted picture diagram to make a fraction, put answer to 2nd part of question on the answer line for the next question
8, Wrote the answer to question 7 on this line and didnít answer question 8
16, 5 digit number subtraction
17, Multiplication, 3 digit number by 2 digit number
21, Add mixed number fractions, 3 3/8 + 5 5/8 = 2
26, How many eggs in 2 Ĺ dozenÖ = 24


Denise Meador

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scifinut
Joined Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 550

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Posted:Feb 25, 2008 11:03:22 AM

Math facts can be done easily with TouchMath. (http://www.touchmath.com) Its what really "clicked" my dd into math.

Use graph paper to help with lining up problems. This helps keep things in line and can be useful in aligning decimal points.

scifinut mom to: ms 16, bp/adhd/anxiety/complex ld mr. 20, add/dyslexic I hear and I forget I see and I remember I do and I understand. -Anonymous

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geodob
Joined Feb 06, 2005
Posts: 265

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Posted:Feb 26, 2008 2:13:02 AM

Hi Deebee,
You might find my Forum on the maths disorder Dyscalculia helpful?
Where the main factor, is Visual-Spatial thinking difficulties.
Where 'mental maths' relies on visual-spatial thinking.
http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com/

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deebee
Joined Feb 25, 2008
Posts: 3

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Posted:Feb 26, 2008 9:34:04 AM

geodob

I have posted this information over on your site, but it doesn't seem like queries get many responses. I have found the articles at your site to be very informative.

For me, the time is running out in how much time I have before a meeting with the school and I still don't know how to get the school to address the issue. Last years request for an IEP was denied.

Denise Meador

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geodob
Joined Feb 06, 2005
Posts: 265

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Posted:Feb 27, 2008 5:16:39 AM

Hi Deebee, or Dborgo,
Sorry for lack of responses on my site.

Though it really comes down to the issue of Visual Processing?
Which also generally sub-divides into both Visual and Spatial Processing.
That work in co-ordination.
Which are both a type of Working Memory.
Where mental maths, rely on visual-spatial thinking, to work through a calculation.
Also to 'comprehend' numbers.
Though what we know of as 'numbers', are rather verbal and visual symbols.
Where what a 'number' really is, is a Symbol to represent a Quantity.
With an emphasis on 'represent'.
Where Maths is all about Quantity.

If you think about the word; Quantity?
How do you think about it?
No doubt, you think of it in both Visual and Spatial terms?
Where a Quantity 'fills a space', that can be 'visually represented'.
So that we then take this Visual-Spatial recognition of a Quantity. Then give it a 'name' and 'symbol'.

But if we have a difficulty with Visual-Spatial Processing?
Then, it makes it difficult to comprehend and recognise Quantity?
With the result that the names and symbols for numbers, that represent Quantities?
Are not associated with anything?

So that the number 4/ four is not associated with a quantity?
So that numbers are learned, in the same way as learning the alphabet?
A,B,C,D,... 1,2,3,4,... .

So that a simple addition of 1+3= ?
Makes as much sense as: A+C= ?

What many Dyscalculics do, who have Visual Spatial Processing difficulties?
Is to memorize basic maths calculations.
So that they memorize 3+4=7.
In the same way as: C+D=G.

Where G or 7 has no real meaning, and doesn't represent anything?
Yet it gets more complicated with 'double digits'?
Where:
12-11= ?
Makes as much sense as:
AB-AA= ?

My point is, that 'maths difficulties' are in fact a symptom of Visual &/or Spatial Processing difficulties.
Where the next question, is whether these Visual-Spatial Processing difficulties, can be addressed in some way?
Geoff,

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Jenn
Joined Jun 12, 2003
Posts: 98

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Posted:Feb 27, 2008 5:20:25 PM

Ok, just my 2 cents, but it sounds like your daughter has been moved along in math through the years without having mastered earlier and more basic skills. There is a program you can do with her at home that will help her to really learn these skills and fill in the gaps - check out www.mathusee.com. I use this in my resource room and it does work. From the web site you can order a free demo DVD, which I would recommend doing as that will give you a good overall of the program and it's philosophies. It is very parent friendly, and would allow you to have your daughter move faster when it's a topic she has mastered, and slow down as long as she needs to on others. It shouldn't take long at night, and can be set up in a way that will work with what your evenings/weekends are like.

Good luck!

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