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Parenting a Child with LD or ADHD

Any suggestions for mom w 13 yr old diagnosed AD/HD ODD PTSD


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Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 1
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Posted Jun 11, 2009 at 9:08:37 AM
Subject: Any suggestions for mom w 13 yr old diagnosed AD/HD ODD PTSD

Hi
I just stumbled onto this site a few days ago in my desperate search for support.
Im a single mom with two sons who have LD.
The son I need the most support with is my 13 yr old (going on 50 yr old who knows everything and im suddenly the most ignorant human on earth) son. He has been diagnosed AD/HD ODD PTSD BI-POLAR (TRAMA INDUCED), and he has a sleeping disorder with night terrors (sleep study to be scheduled this summer).
He at times is the most helpful and co-operative young man when it serves to benefit him. Most times he is obstanant, defiant, violent, selfish, self serving... Im sure I dont need to go on. He displays a total disrespect for females in authority. He displays absolute defiance for authority here in the home (me). At school his defiance is not outwardly shown it is subtle (not turning in homework, not doing class work, just looking around the room (not disruptive) while the teacher is speaking or giving instructions). His teachers say he is a pleasure to have except for the display of "you cant make me do a thing i dont want to do".
He is on Concerta for the AD/HD symptoms. We have tried every approved medication for sleep with no benefits. Yes he has taken melatonin and benedryl. Benedryl was a total nightmare because he was so hyper that i was pulling my hair out. Melatonin had 0 benefit. He is presently (until we see his dr today at least) taking Lexapro to target the anxiety associated with the PTSD and trauma induced Bi-Polar with the hope that it would help with sleep. I havent seen any benefits with the Lexapro only more aggetation.
He has gotten progressively more physically violent with his younger brother (11 who has also been diagnosed LD) and myself.
Yes he is in counseling. He has a Case Manager (female which doesnt help since he displays hatred for women), a counselor (again female), and a Coach (male!!! the only male available in this county btw). In honesty I havent seen any improvements. But keep in mind that over the years of trying to get him help the system in this county has failed him. Every time he builds some kind of relationship with his counselor he gets switched to a new one because the counselor he is seeing quits because the mental health field in this county stinks!!! He has currently been involved with the counselor he now has since the beginning of the 08- 09 school year. This is the longest he has kept the same counselor since our journey began at age 7. The Case manager came on board 2 mos ago replacing a male Case manager that he liked very much. And the coach has been on board for 2 mos as well.
As you can see I have many things in place but am still drowning in the sea of confusion. I need to find help with positive parenting skills. His team of counselors told me in front of him that when i give him instructions and he doesnt do it that I cant make him do anything. EXCUSE ME? They say for me to walk away. EXCUSE ME? Is that not giving into him and telling him that it is ok to be defiant? Is that not telling his younger brother that it is ok for him to be hit on?
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!???
Thanks for reading...
JudesG

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
Posts: 424

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A few suggestions and some thoughts... Some of them may be way off base some of them may be helpful i don't know. I am not you i don't know your child.

Here is what sticks out to me and remember i don't know your child. He seems to be diagnosed with every single solitary fad presently in existence. I am not saying all of them or any of them are wrong, but i am saying this because i know a few things about these things. Been around the block a few times... People profit off these fad diagnosies. And many of the ones you mention have some pretty serious overlapping behavioral associations and many of them have absolutely o foundation in legitimate science. There are other forms of depression for example that are not bi polar.For example Dysthymia, You don't mention any "manic" phases for your child just that he is evil obstinant with authority issues and likely with personal problems and night terrors. Sounds like you should look into that because if he does have ADHD that is far more likely to be the type of depression he has rather than bi polar. Bi polar can not be bi polar without the super extreme highs as well as the super extreme lows. Because then it isn't *bi* in nature. Look into Dysthimia. You may find yourself falling out of your chair. You also may not.

Second ADHD, is NOT Obstinant defiant disorder it is also not hatred of women disorder. Hatred of women is a taught phenomina. Hell if i know who taught him that lesson but someone apparently has. And it is a shame cuz he is clearly a smart kid who sees right away when something is in what he feels are his best interests. Unfortunately he is a teenager which means by the very nature of puberty you will not agree on what best for him is. The other problem is this, you seem like a nice perason trying to help your kid and it is really admirable and maybe you are thinking about him in the wrong way or maybe you really are missing some brain cells i am not trying to be offensive here but half the problem to me seems to be that he is out smarting you far too often. Which means you are saying oh he has ADHD how bright can he be? which is a possibility and so you are thinking of him as less than he is and lowering your expectations for his intelligent and truly uncool responses to you, or you are just not the intellectual equal of this child. If that is the case you are in trouble. under estimation, can be fixed... The other possibility can not be.

It could also be that he only has PTSD possibly no ADHD or depression? PTSD can manifest exactly as you are describing. In which case have you heard of some form of rappid eye movement therapy? I have heard of it but i don't know much about it. But you can google it.

Did you ever think maybe his dislike of women has a basis in something real that has happened to him? PTSD comes from traumatic incidents. Maybe some woman in his past somewhere a school teacher an aunt an uncle a friend's parent? a neighbor *SOMEONE* has mistreated him? Do you talk to him about his night terrors? Have you stopped to talk to him about how safe he feels with you? It could be just that once a woman failed to protect him from something? Again, i know only what you have said and you seem so well intentioned and it is so clear this child needs some serious help something isn't right but it starts with the parent.

Parents spend so much time wondering how to fix their broken children that they don't stop to ask how did i contribute to the breaking of my kid? And no doubt you did contribute. I don't know you i don't know how. But i have trouble believing you would do whatever it was intentionally. Whatever it is though, you have contributed to the mess so you have to ask how you got to where you are. Retrace all the steps. Then figure out how to stop making the same mistakes. Recognize where others have made mistakes and find ways to avoid making those mistakes too again. Remember to his mind you are still responsible for his life so anything he does is your problem. So turn that back on him... There is this lovely little thing i am not sure you have ever tried it... Reverse psychology or something.... "Oh you don't want to do your homework or school work... Ok... Don't do it then... But do you want to be 17 and in the 7th grade when all your friend's are graduating? Well if that is really what you want... Don't do it." And focus on something else. Don't give him and his nagative behaviors attention ignore him then totally maybe? Have you tried that? When he has to repeat a grade or 2 he will get it. He will have to. You see once he makes that mess for himself he will have to earn his way out of it by cleaning it up for himself too. It is hard to let go in such a way i know but sometimes, it is the only way to make children see they are responsible for their own behavior at the age of 13 to some degree. By allowing them to make their mistakes and to have to live through the consequences they will learn it is easier not to make messes.

Is there a way to not go through the county to get him help and to actually get him good help that isn't going anywhere? Is there someway that you can help him? Something that i know of where i live or rather it used to be around i don't know if it still is was a place called The Academy. It was all games and fun and trust exercises and cooperation exercises with other boys or girls most of them had some sort of issues. You might want to check them out and see if they are in your area and if so sign him up!

Maybe you should try taking a parenting class? Or have you already? I am simply saying that not to say you are a bad parent i am sure you are not. But there is always something we can learn about parenting... Another thing you might want to try is some sort of medication to help you? An anti anxiety perhaps? You might also want to see a therapist for *you* because, it sounds like you need some supports in place for you as well as for your child. When you are struggling you can't help him in his struggling because you yourself are in the same boat of struggling. Another thing that might be worth doing is trying a contract. You sit down you may even take a week or a month to slowly put it together. A contract that establishes the rules that govern both of you. And you are NOT exempt from the rules set forth in that contract. And when there is a dispute about what might not be in the contract or how to interpret it, take it to a therapist and work out the middle ground. But you would put everything you want to see in it. Everything he needs to do what he gets for doing all the things you specify that he needs to do. And what the penalties are for doing things that are not to be done according to the contract. And he gets to write up the same deal for you. Then you both go over it all together and you work out some compromises on some things and agree to other terms and get a therapist to arbitrate and to help to formulate this agreement. Then you both sign it. And then, you both live ina ccordance with it. And accept the penalties for not living in accordance with it on occasions when one or the other of you fail.

When you have an issue of 1 child asaulting the other you need to step in and do something. You should think about what and come up with a procedure for such incidents. And think about how to react. But you can not permit 1 child to be battered by the other. At the same time, your reaction is teaching something to your "bad" child. Which it sounds like you feel he is. The way you talk about him he can almost do no right. And i feel really sad for him that you really can't describe or don't get into the positives of his character. Because those are the tools which can be utilized to create new strategies for him to compensate for his disabilities. If he uses them creatively. Also the bigger your blow up is and the more reactive you are the more he is learning from you how to be reactive. You don't need to teach him that which is why you need to make a game plan and stop what you are doing it isn't working. Sometimes not reacting to something is the best way to react. Because it teaches calmness. But i do agree cases of 1 child battering another require something from you since you can not teach him to be calm when one person batters another either. So you have to discuss with someone what the best reaction is for such situations. Maybe something to take up with a professional that doesn't suck? Someone not from the county? Someone designed to give you support rather than to be involved with your child?

Maybe you don't understand why he doesn't do homework? Maybe you are missing something? Maybe he has trouble with it? Maybe he needs a tutor? Just a thought. Again i do not know you or your child. Also, if i were you i would stop listening to the dr.s. I mean listen... But then do your own research. Look into the side effects of Lexapro and all the other astuff you have him on. So far nothing that you have said screams ADHD to me at all. Some of these drugs cause these behaviors. Many of them are missused or prescribed in bad dosages... These drugs are not toys. They are not something to use unless you have to. Sounds like you probably do since your child sounds like he is harmful to others? But again, which drugs and how much? And what happens if you take him off lexapro for 6 months? to see if the agitation goes down since initially there will be withdrawal and agitation will skyrocket. If that doesn't help maybe try getting rid of the concerta for a few months? It takes a month on average for the detox to be complete from such drugs. But many drugs do effect teenagers just as you are describing. Most of these drugs were not even designed to be used in children. Most of them are designed for adults. Maybe try some alternative medications? Or herbal remedies also can't hurt? These are just thoughts and suggestions no more and no less. You must always do as you think is best you are more aware of the situation than anyone else is. But i am just putting out everything i can think of to try just incase there is something i have heard of that you have not tried yet. But i need to go to sleep shortly and i am quite tired i will sleep on this and see if i can think of anything else at all to throw in your general direction...

Good luck and hang in there.

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scifinut
Joined Jul 11, 2005
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I have a daughter, 17, who has Bipolar, ADHD, Anxiety, Panic and ODD. I completely understand the frustration you are going through. My daughter was diagnosed when she was 8 and went through a number of medication trials. What I did when we were going through the medication trials was to read up on the medications for Bipolar, since many of the other issues all have similar or overlapping symptoms. I also looked for, and found, very supportive groups for families dealing with bipolar children. This site is NOT supportive for those issues as it is mostly for the LD part of our lives. If you go to http://www.nami.org your can possibly find an in-person support group in your area. :)

As for discipline issues, try reading The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. I found it very helpful in dealing with my daughter when she was unstable.

If you email me privately I can give you some good links to information that could help you and more appropriate support forums.

scifinut mom to: ms 16, bp/adhd/anxiety/complex ld mr. 20, add/dyslexic I hear and I forget I see and I remember I do and I understand. -Anonymous

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dhfl143
Joined Jan 25, 2008
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Posted:Jun 12, 2009 10:24:52 PM

Here is another forum that has members who might also be helpful and supportive with issues you are facing:
http://millermom.proboards.com

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Steve
Joined Nov 05, 2003
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I have seen a lot of "multiple diagnosis" kids in my work. In my experience, kids who have high anxiety levels due to trauma do poorly on stimulants. They often become more anxious or especially more aggressive and are then labelled "Bipolar". It becomes very confusing when multiple meds are involved. The fact that he can be very lovely most of the time but has these outbursts suggests that PTSD is the main problem. I have never heard of "trauma-induced bipolar disorder" and know for a fact it is not in the DSM-IV. The idea of bipolar is that the person has a genetically or biologially mediated cycle of behavior that is not sspecifically connected to triggers or events in the environment. Certainly, events can provoke an episode, but the theory is that the cycles would occur regardless of the environment.

PTSD, on the other hand, involves specific emotional reactions to stimuli that remind the person of the traumatic event. This sounds very much like what you describe - things are going OK, and then something happens, and suddenly he's going nuts. I assume there is a trauma history or no one would be talking about "trauma-induced bipolar", so why not just assume it is reactivity to triggers and try to figure out what they are? This is what a good therapist should be doing. Unfortunately, not all therapists are adequately trained in trauma intervention, so you do need to shop around. But I'd look for someone with specific skills in that area and take him in for a new assessment.

I'd also do a very careful analysis of when things started to escalate. If there have been recent additions or increases in medication dosage and they have not resulted in substantial gains (or have in fact resulted in deterioration), the drugs themselves may be an issue. In addition to ADHD meds causing anxiety and/or aggression (Ritalin is actually "contraindicated" for cases of high anxiety - it's on the label), SSRIs like Lexapro can cause "manic reactions" in a substantial proportion of people taking them, which could definitely get you an inappropriate "bipolar" label.

My basic philosophy is this: if the people providing the treatment for your child haven't been successful, it is likely not an effective treatment. Ineffective treatments should be discontinued and other strategies can be tried. Otherwise, you get a very confusing picture that no one can really sort out.

Hope that helps a bit. I know it's a nightmare and you want to believe that someone out there has a solution for you, but the bottom line is, you have to be a good consumer and hold the professionals' toes to the fire. They are responsible for coming up with a solution. If they can't, we shouldn't be paying them. Blaming the child is a cheap way of avoiding responsibility. The therapy (both drug and non-drug) should have to be shown to have a substantial and concrete positive effect, or it should be stoppped. There is no sense in continuing something that doesn't work or makes things worse.

----- Steve

---- Steve

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
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You don't sound like a complete moron considering you do sound very up on this non scinetific field but i have a question....
"The idea of bipolar is that the person has a genetically or biologially mediated cycle of behavior"

I know what the idea is. But ummm I would like to know if any evidence of bi polar has yet been found in the genetic code or in the brain? If there is anything that has been presented to which we can point and say "see, this is bi polar!" As i understand it it has now been atleast 10 years this branch of non science has been looking for it and they still have nothing so saying the idea is that it is related to genetics could be construed as a bit misleading no? I mean saying, "many in the field of psychiatry believe it *MAY* be genetic.... Buut have 0 grounds as of yet to hold that opinion" Would be a more accurate way to present it wouldn't it? Infact recently in some journal i do forget which one now there was a study done showing that bi polar is NOT the least bit genetic. I read the paper. And you see, i am an archaeologist which means i am a scientist. My husband a phd in a science form also read the paper. Why is it psychiatry keeps doing this to itself? Misleading people no matter how good the intention is is simply not cool.

Though again, i have heard far worse quackery and actually i agree with you the main problem does sound like PTSD. But that is ofcourse without observing the child so maybe until hearing from him no one should really have any opinion at all?

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Steve
Joined Nov 05, 2003
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Hi, Mandy!

I know what you are saying and don't disagree with you about any of it. I am just trying to be helpful to the poster. I have my own ideas, based on a significant knowledge of the research in the area, and frankly, I find the DSM to be one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated on the public. However, I want to respond to what the poster has been told, and even within the rules that their own folks have laid down, unscientific as they are, there is no justification for a diagnosis like that.

I am a very practically oriented person and find that arguing theory can lead to endless debates and no conclusions, but empirical observation is a lot harder to argue with. If you've been "diagnosed" and "treated," regardless of your own or the professional's philosophy, you have a right to expect improvement of your condition. If there is no substantive improvement, then the "treatment" is bogus. It's that simple to me.

In this case, it sounds like the labels and treatments attempted have been at best of marginal assistance, and may well have made things worse. Seems like it is time to reassess to me. Regardless of what you think of the DSM, I think everyone has a right to expect results. That's the real measure of any theory, if you are a real scientist (which I happen to be).

I have found over time that using the language of the poster and working from what they have observed or believe is a lot more effective than presenting a lot of theoretical discussion. You might not agree with that, but I have worked with hundreds of real life cases and have experimented with a lot of different approaches, and this is what I've found to be most effective.

I have no interest in convincing anyone to agree with my viewpoint. I just want this child, who is obviously being disserved by the system, to get what he needs to help him move forward.

---- Steve

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
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Well before i declare my personal assement of you... Which is actually looking good so far you seem like a non psychiatrist moron which is actually very difficult to find.... So one last question to decide this....

What do you think about creationism verses the scientific theory of evolution and good old fashioned darwinism? Please keep in mind if you blow this question the good opinion of you that i am slowly beginning to have is going to be bitterly smashed....

And no this question has absolutely nothing to do with this board but it will tell me quite a bit about you and just how much BS you are willing to buy into and that will help me to figure out if you are just another quack (which actually you don't sound like)

The thing is, i really don't care about this individual child. My care is for all children with so called issues that no one can prove. I think what psychiatric profession is doing as a general rule is cruel and unusual and i don't believe it is really particularly helpful for many people. But i agree, whatever you are trying, try it for a while and assess where you are at and if it isn't getting you anywhere try something else.

I also agree that this kid doesn't sound like half the rubbish the system has apparently labled him with somethying isn't right though and it is really too bad. I hope he gets better and things go better for him. But what i hope for even mpore than that is that yhe psychiatric profession will get it's head out of it's you know what so that it can help children like him rather than causing them more pain and suffering... Which i find is far too often the case.

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annette10dance
Joined May 13, 2008
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How does a 13 year old have PTSD? Was he abused? It sounds like no one wants to take the time to know him or work with him.

Do you believe that your son has all of these disorders at the same time? Do you believe that he could benefit from an in-patient setting?

My personal opinion, is that he probably has some type of learning disability such as expressive language and receptive language problem. This would include following 2 steps directions and multistep directions with school work.

He also might have another disorder such as anxiety, ADD or bi-polar. Who knows? Kids with ADD and Bi-polar also have food allergies. Mostly to food items he eats all the time in addition to food preservatives and colorings, especially red dye.

I think you might have better luck with a Neurologist or a Neurodevelopmental Pediatrician. All of the learning disorders and psychiatric disorders are all neurological disorders. A neurologist can spend more time with you, give you suggestions and make recommendations for the school to help him.

Let us know if a change in the specialist can point you in the right direction. This must be really hard for you.

Annette

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
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Posted:Jun 29, 2009 12:48:33 PM

Really? Kids with ADHD have food allergies? That is a shock since i supposedly have it and i am not allergic to anything. Please stop furthering the deceit. Be honest. I am sure there are some so called ADHD cases that do also have food allergies but saying that is a facet of this alledged disorder is not only erroneous it is entirely deceitful and misleading. I don't know who told you that but it is not true. If you don't want to take it from me, i invite DRHD to weigh in on this point and even Steve who already has. I am sure they will tell you to find a legitimate non bogus source of information on ADHD. Thank you.

How does a child at 13 have PTSD.... How does a child of 6 have PTSD? Oh well i can tell you how i ended up with it.... I was in a very serious car accident trauma to the head, swhattered pelvis and about 3 yearws worth of operations to put my body back together again and a whole slew of painful physical therapy. My dad was a very neglectful parent, but at that time he was not yet pure evil. He did not deliberately cause or desire that to happen while i was in his care. I am sure there are a whole bunch of additional ways someone at such a young age can have PTSD some of those ways involve abuse and neglect and quite enough of them do not.

That was the idea i gathered from reading the post. He had every bogus afliction every dreamed up by big pharma for profit, all at once. I suspect atleast some of it is true... How much though? well... I have no idea... Technicallhy it was my understanding children could not be diagnosed as bi polar??? Or atleast that diagnosis was at one time reserved only for adults? Which makes me suspicious. There was one doctor out of Boston i can not recall his name now who had quite a scandal some time ago... He said that so called ADHD was bi-polar in children and the ADHD alledged symptoms were just the symptoms of the bi-polar.

As of now there has never been anything physical linked to ADHD. They can not provide any legitimate organic evidenc that it even exists. Please stop promoting that allergies which are legitimately physical are related to ADHD. Because it just aint true. Live and learn.

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annette10dance
Joined May 13, 2008
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I worked for Princeton Bio Center which was a holistic approach to medicine. Dr. Carl C. Pheiffer originated the business finding other ways (besides medication) to treat schizophrenia back in the 1980's. The 2 physicians in the 1990's were D.O. (doctor of osteopathy of medicine). This center is no longer in business.

We worked with the most severe cases of ADHD. Some parents think the child doesn't need any medication for the office visit. These kids would wreck the playroom and just go crazy. The physician told the mom to give the child the medication. He is in pain and very uncomfortable. Not only is it hard for the parent, the child suffers too and she/he is in pain with discomfort.

The center had it's own blood lab and it's own allergy lab. The skin allergy test can reveal behavioral reactions to food. Mostly, of what is eaten every day, all the time and usually it's the favorite food item that needs to be eliminated.

It should be common knowledge to you, that allergies can develop suddenly, at any time and at any age. It should also be common knowledge that food colorings, preservates, oils and inert ingrediants can produce an allergy reaction that may/may not be easily detected.

Anyway, the results of the allergy testing on children with severe ADHD, reveals allergy to foods of about 30-50 different items. So, the result is that diet alone can't eliminate ADHD. Some kids can get a lower dose of medication in addition to diet changes. Also, the center manufactured it's own vitamin and aminoacid to offset hyperactivity. I'm not sure if that vitamin store is still there in Princeton.

It was sad to see the business close. All of the testing was not covered by insurance and it was expensive to do. The center treated the most severe cases, unidentified cases and helped people after most have been to every doctor imaginable. There was alot of documentation that is forever lost about the treatments and the people that were helped by Princeton Bio Center.

Annette

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
Posts: 424

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Posted:Jul 03, 2009 12:56:32 PM

You are ignoring the point and instead furthering a fraud.

The center had it's own blood lab and it's own allergy lab. The skin allergy test can reveal behavioral reactions to food. Mostly, of what is eaten every day, all the time and usually it's the favorite food item that needs to be eliminated.

YES children with food disorders may manifest those disorders by exhibiting the so called symptoms of ADHD. THERE ARE OVER 400 PHYSICAL ISSUES THAT CAN MANIFEST IN SUCH A WAY, which is why parents are supposed to get their kid a complete detailed indepth physical BEFORE taking them to a shrink to be potentially diagnosed with ADHD.

HOWEVER, ADHD, according to NIMH, has NO PHYSICAL COMPONENT that has ever been presented which can be measured. What you are seeking to do is to confuse everyone when the fact is NIMH doesn't agree with you. ADHD is diagnosed when the behaviors are without any underlying issues that can be measured physically or when they are accompanied by perhaps very real physical ailments THAT DO NOT MANIFEST IN THE SYMPTOMS OF ADHD. You are twisting the facts and that is not ok.

Be honest because what you say does NOT stand up to scrutiny or common logic.

Nor does it stand up to the statements of the community that in point of actual fact voted ADHD into existance in like 1980 at a meeting by the raising of hands. The fact that it is classified as a disorder rather than a disease makes it very clear that there is nothing legitimately hard or credibly or physical that can be used or said to be associated with ADHD. The diagnosis is SOLELY BASED ON BEHAVIORS which the one being diagnosed is said to have usually by 1 or 2 teachers and a pair of terrified parents over analyzing the behavior of their child as the teacher has told them their kid is defective.

Please provide proof to back up your claim that ADHD is food allergies in kids. Find me some verified studies that have also been present to NIMH that prove that food allergies are in anyway linked to ADHD. You won't find any. But you may find a few that say what i just did. That some food allergies present with the symptoms commonly associated with ADHD. Which means they are food allergy symptoms as well as symptoms of an alledged disorder voted into existance in 1980 for which no evidence of a legitimate nature has been presented. And they are the symptoms of atleast 399 OTHER legitimate physical conditions as well.

ADHD is not a food allergy, some food allergies may present with ADHD like symptoms, you don't seem like a total moron so i will agree with you that far so then you change the diet to take out those foods and youa re all set. Otherwise it isn't food allergies either that are the root of ADHD and they have nothing to do with the symptoms at all if simply removing those substances that one is allergic to does not cause the syymptoms to dissipate. Your logic makes no sense.

Lastly present me with a statement from NIMH or from the happy book of psych disorder bible thing that indicates that ADHD is food allergies. Otherwise what you are saying, holds NO merit.

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
Posts: 424

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Hey Steve, is Ritalin the proper treatment for a person with a food allergy? Because i have never heard of it being used for that.

If the severely ADHD folk you saw and tested for allergies really had so many allergies, what was the average number of foods someone without ADHD is allergic to? Are there cases when someone without severe ADHD is allergic to 30-50 foods?

Would you consider it bad parenting to leave your child on the side of the road when the child is 5 years old because they are hard to manage while you stand on the other side of this busy road with your back to them? Or to you would that constitute child neglect and endangerment? Because if a parent that would do that is neglectful and as a result putting their child in danger then i would like to point out that a parent that doesn't learn the names of all the foods their child is allergic to and that doesn't protect their child all the time every minute of every day from ingesting those foods is actually equally as guilty of child neglect. I realize it is easier to step away from one's responsibilities when one's child is hard to manage, but that does not make it ok and it is not ok to be too lazy to keep all the foods a kid is allergic to away from them and instead better parenting to make them pop a pill that effects them the same way as cocaine does and has only a 3 year time period of effectiveness shrinks the frontal lobe with long term use can cause long term symptoms of terrets and a whole host of other things rather than being a proactive parent and keeping the foods the child is allergic to away from them.

Lastly, were you the one that had to clean the play room at the office? Because cleaning up after many kids passing through every day might get on my last nerve after a while too especially if those kids were n0ot my own and were reacting with ADHD symptoms due to food allergies. And exactly how old were these children disrupting and destroying the play room which you may or may not have had to clean? Because child development there are stages where that is actually entirely NORMAL.

What exactly was your job and what is your education level in this field that you worked in with these doctors who's names you drop?

Were these just your observations that children with ADHD were allergic to 30-50 food items? Or is there a study somewhere that verifies that? Were children with slightly lesser ADHD allerigc to fewer food items? Are you qualified to make the distinction as to who's adhd is actually severe and who's isn't? What exactly are your qualifications to say that cases of severe ADHD generally accompanied by 30-50 food allergies?

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Steve
Joined Nov 05, 2003
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I never heard of allergies being treated with stimulants. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Just as a point of clarification, I don't really believe the DSM is a legitimate source of diagnostic wisdom. It's pretty much a list of behaviors that tend to happen together with certain "criteria" attached to determine who fits into a particular slot. But they aren't very helpful in figuring out what to do.

I actually do care a lot about the poster and her child. That's why I come on this kind of forum. I don't think we're going to convince the mental health system to reform by posting on a website. But I do think we can help people find alternatives to destructive treatments and empty labels. The more individuals are able to observe for themselves that the "treatments" for these "disorders" don't really help, the sooner we as consumers will get impatient with the dishonest marketing and arm twisting that pass for mental health care.

When I say that I've never heard of "trauma-induced bipolar disorder" I am simply wanting to communicate that the person making this diagnosis is making it up on the spot. I hope that would call their credibility into question. And I recommend finding another practitioner who has a broader perspective and is willing to reconsider the "diagnoses" that are being treated, especially considering the possibility that the "bipolar disorder" is caused by the stimulants. I think that's pretty sound advice, myself.

I believe people have to have good information and make up their own minds about things. Me telling them what to do might be slightly better than a psychiatrist telling them what to do, but it's still not going to get them where they need to be. I want folks to view doctors and psychologists and anyone claiming to help as people who are being paid to serve them. The person seeking help is the customer and should have the final say in all things. Anyone who tries to lie or manipulate or bully someone into agreeing with their treatment plan should lose their license. It's all about informed consent, and this poor poster didn't get it. I want to empower her to make up her own mind, and do what she thinks works, whether she agrees with me or not. It's really the only way to get out of this weird "mental health" bind, because the system sure ain't gonna reform itself!

---- Steve

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
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I never heard of allergies being treated with stimulants. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Thank you Steve, that is kinda what i thought. Ritalin is used to treat ADHD. It makes absolutely no sense to treat ADHD with ritalin and even less sense to treat allergies with ritalin.

Kids with ADD and Bi-polar also have food allergies. Mostly to food items he eats all the time in addition to food preservatives and colorings, especially red dye.

If such a physical condition could be linked to ADHD by the definition of the happy book of mental disorders, then it would likely be treating ADHD with an antihystamine instead of therapeutic cocaine, because first order of business would be the physical ailment. But it is not treated that way. Because it has nothing to do with allergies. Some people with ADHD may have allergies sure and i am sure plenty without ADHD have allergies as well. So far in the last few weeks no evidence to back up this claim has been presented so either present it or don't toot that horn anymore.

I am sorry are you indicating here you worked for an allergy diagnostician who was reccomending to parents to treat their children with ritalin???

The physician told the mom to give the child the medication. He is in pain and very uncomfortable. Not only is it hard for the parent, the child suffers too and she/he is in pain with discomfort.

Because that is what you are saying here. Which seems suspect to me on account that allergies are not treated with ritalin in the real world.

Then there is your claim that the doctor said this because the child was uncomfortable and in pain. Again this illusion to a physical root of ADHD. THERE IS NO SUCH LINK ESTABLISHED BETWEEN ADHD AND THE BODY! Don't take it from me, read the stinking book about mental disorders for yourself it is in there and if not ask Nimh. The child was in NO pain. The child was just being a child or the child was reacting to his ADHD because those are the so called symptoms which have NEVER been linked to "pain" the only pain ADHD causes is the pain that people with it get from dealing with predjudiced people who want to feel like we are innately different than they are. But that would hurt anyone ADHD or not. Don't take that from me either, ask an african american.

Anyway, the results of the allergy testing on children with severe ADHD, reveals allergy to foods of about 30-50 different items. So, the result is that diet alone can't eliminate ADHD. Some kids can get a lower dose of medication in addition to diet changes.

Here you suggest that a change of diet helps those with ADHD which is an indication that ADHD is a product of nurture and not even related to DNA which is another one they like to claim about ADHD. So which is it? Food related poor diet makes kids hyper, i will buy that. But i will not jump and say it is all these food allergies are hurting them and the food allergies are genetic. Did you test the parents to check if THEY had the same alelrgies? I doubt it. Your answers and responses when it comes to ADHD don't even agree with eachother, like the bible you are a walking contradiction on this subject of ADHD. Please present evidence for what you claim related to allergies since you did present it i would like to see upon what your claims are actually based on as a scientist.

Just as a point of clarification, I don't really believe the DSM is a legitimate source of diagnostic wisdom. It's pretty much a list of behaviors that tend to happen together with certain "criteria" attached to determine who fits into a particular slot. But they aren't very helpful in figuring out what to do.

I don't really disagree with you at all. And i don't think these slots are useful. All they do is provide people with an excuse to abuse or patronize or otherwise mistreat people whoa re just as human as they are in every legitimate way that matters. As a result i find they do more harm than good. Which is why i directly oppose the labling of children. I do not object to children being tested to see how they learn nor do i object to testing to the point at the end the best method of teaching these children is established, but to lable a child is to fault them for being what they are, a child. With their own unique set of behaviors that for what ever reason irritate their elders.

No the mental health system is sick beyond repair. It will not repair itself. Too many people are making too much money off of it for doing absolutely nothing to actually help anyone. Which is why i tend to feel most shrinks and therapists are no better than the few dead beats on welfare the ones choosing not to work . If the welfare system therefore needs to be fixed the mental health system needs to be fixed even more.

I have also found no references to trauma induced bi-polar in any credible place. That is now 2 people telling that to this poster who should if i were her anyway get her child real help, help that might actually help because it is not based on what everyone knows including the mental health profession (which actually accepts alot of fiction as fact) does not accept that particular diagnostic fiction as fact. See someone legitimate. Don't feel bad for being fooled though it happens to the best of us.

Example, my parents wanted to send me to a private svchool to do so i had to see a woman i will call Dr. D a woman over 300 pounds working for the school system in lexington Ma. Good old Dr. D, started out very pleasant and i ofcourse responded in kind i am only rude twhen necesary.

Soo before i went in my mother said "We are fighting the school system to get you this education which you need. Do not lie to this woman at all. BUT if for some reason you are uncomfortable answering her questions don't answer them. Fair enough. And that is what i did. So she actually handed me a test, that was a true or false test. Check true if it applies or check false if it doesn't. It was all about me and my family. At one point the question literally was "Does your father sexually abuse you on mondays or tuesdays?" How do you check true or false to that??? Are you saying true to he does it on monday or true to tuesday or if you check false are you checking false that he does it on monday or false that he does it on tuesday??? There is no option to say "No my father may be a jerk who is very unkind to me and swears at me every day and he is extremely manipulatiive and on occasion physically violent, but not even commonly physically violent but he NEVER sexually abiuses me." So i didn't answer that questiona t all. Well good old Dr. D, Got nutsoes when she saw i didn't answer a few queestions. First she offered me this and that to get me to answer i was not comfortable answering. Then she got angry. Started ranting and raving about the tax payers paying 25 cents for the stamp to mail that test in to be graded. So i pulled a quarter out of my pocket and put it in her hand and told her to leave me alone about it. She wouldn't she got up in my face, 300 pounds, fists all balled up, about 5 foot 10. I am barely scraping 5 foot 2 and was less than 110 pounds at 15 years old. And she was in my face physically blocking the only exit route screaming in my face just because i wouldn't answer some ludicrous question because the town was trying to take me away from my parents to avoid paying for the education which they knew they would lose fighting over in court. Well, ultimately it stopped because i sat down and i just sat there i refused to look at her or talk to her further. N0ot a single word. After over 6 hours of that trying every tactic she could she let me go.

A couple of weeks later a friend went through the same process with the same Dr. D. Her mother was a stay home mom with lotsa time. Her mom looked into Dr. D and found out Dr. D didn't even have a masters degree in ANYTHING but was hired by a wealthy town for her expertise as a Dr and introduced herself as such. No PHD at all and not even a masters. That was back in 1995. Things have not changed so much since then. Keep your eyes open. That is my best advice to you because there really are frauds mixed in there. The school apparently knew she had no PHD or masters while introducing her to my parents as a PHD. Funny what they will do to try to screw people. Keep your eyes open do some digging always and don't even let them be alone with your kid. I have known several ki9ds who saw a Dr. for their ADHD who would sexually abuse them and have them on so much medication they were practically catatonic on their visits to his office. Was disgusting. This industry is an industry. It has the capacity to help children sometimes. It also has the ability and does a darn good job at usually abusing them more than it helps them. because the system is a bunch of flawed humans looking for a pay day it can be nothing but corrupt for that simple reason. Best of luck to you and i hope my experience can help you by showing you just how proactive and alert and in every expert's business you actually have to be to get your child the help they need.

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Mandi
Joined May 05, 2008
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Posted:Jul 14, 2009 10:06:27 AM

http://www.turnertoys.com/ADHD/APA_diagCriteria.htm

Read it no mention of allergies or a link to anything physical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder

Educate yourself!

http://www.adhd-report.com/adhd/DSM/6_DSM.html

http://www.adhd-report.com/adhd/brain/24_scans_2.html

I would like to add these studies were in large part funded by drug companies. All studies done where medication has NOT been involved EVER showed the ADHD brain to be indistinguishable from that of a brain that is "normal." How would i know? Because as an arachaeologist with a pretty serrious interest in human evolution one of the focal areas of such studies is the brain so i am quite well versed in it.

Take nothing from me though on ADHD.

Here is a dr. Who says
“Advocates of ADHD and stimulant drugs have claimed that ADHD is associated with changes in the brain. In fact, both the NIH Consensus Development Conference (1998) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (2000) reports on ADHD have confirmed that there is no known biological basis for ADHD. Any brain abnormalities in these children are almost certainly caused by prior exposure to psychiatric medication.”
Dr. Breggin.

An X-ray will produce a picture that, in most cases, is clear enough for you to SEE FOR YOURSELF what it means.

A brain scan produces an image of activity, or of temporary or permanent changes in the brain that, to the average person, would probably be completely indecipherable. You would have to rely on what your doctor tells you it means.

Since it appears that scientists currently know more about life on Mars than they do about the workings of the human brain, what your doctor tells you may well involve a rather large amount of interpretation, and they may not necessarily advise you of that.

Furthermore, this interpretation itself can be subservient to what your doctor is LOOKING FOR. This can often happen at a totally unconscious level.

http://www.adhd-report.com/adhd/brain/26_scans_4.html

Still no mention of allergies being linked to ADHD.

Yes, a questionare is really going to establish a physical connection between ADHD symptoms and a physical issue such as allergies or DNA. Not. It is also not even going to prove or verify in any scientifically credible way such a diagnosis is even legitimate nor is it going to prove there is a difference of any real sort between those with ADHD and those without. Yet it is one of the key foundations upon which diagnosis of ADHD is made.

According to Australian psychologist Rosemary Boon, of Learning Discoveries Psychological Services:

“Paediatricians and psychiatrists make a diagnosis of ADHD based on teacher and parent questionnaires (The Child Behavior Checklist; The Child Attention Problems Scale; The ADHD Rating Scale; The School Situations Questionnaire, and The Connors Teacher Rating Scale-Revised).”

Again don't take it from me.

http://www.adhd-report.com/adhd/brain/27_scans_5.html

Take it from a legitimate source.

Now, THAT’S about as UN-scientific as you could get. It’s certainly a state of affairs that should set alarm bells ringing for all right-minded people. Especially when you take into consideration how LAUGHABLE are the diagnostic criteria to begin with!!

But, what adds injury to insult for many people involved in the case against ‘ADHD’ is that the extremely dubious methods used to ‘diagnose’ it are most often followed by methods of treatment that are equally questionable.

you see no mention of pain a direct absense of actual evidence for this disorder is in essence the only evidence of it yet based on the subjective analysis of a person trained in what clearly amounts to nothing legitimate anyway people are labled with this afliction every day. In the last year diagnosis has gone up by 4%!!!

You see the difference between me and you is i educated myself on the disorder i alledgedly have. I live with it every day and i live with the way people look at me funny when they know about the lable and i see the way strangers ont he street looka t me when they don't know. Because no one can tell. Unless i tell them.

The other difference between me and you is that i am not gullible i do research i look under every rock for answers i look for the facts and the truth i don't just believe what any old fear mongering loser says to me while he is looking for a pay day for himself. Because i am simply not a trusting person. Humans are not trust worthy. Hominids are not trustworthy, hell even monkeys lie to eachother.... Lastly i back up what i say with studies and informative articles i don't just talk out my butt drop a few names and declare myself an all knowing authority. My very mantra is don't take it from me because you don't have to and because i am an archaeologist not a PHD in childrens mental health. What i am though is an educated literate person with some grasp and understanding of the brain as it is part of what i do. So i suppose for that reason i am starting a bit ahead of the game. Now, please stop perpetuating lies and misleading people so you can feel better about your own biggotry against people with a so called diagnosis. It really isn't atractive.

http://www.drthomasebrown.com/pdfs/ef_article.pdf

6-8 percent of children ey? It has risen now to over 24% of school age children is labled with ADHD and fed a drug for it. It was at 20% till about a year or so ago.

No mention in that arcle of allergies either. Their theory is that it is in the frontal cortex which falls at the area of the forehead. It governs our executive functions. The reason i am familiar with it is because i have studied the indonesian "hobbits" of Flores Island. They had massive frontal cortexes. Because they likely had more obstacles to think around than we do at our size. So they developed a stronger executive function in this area. The only evidence of ADHD people having a shortage of frontal cortex when compared to others is or one compromised in function is in cases of long term use of ritalin. On average that there frontal lobe will shrink about 5%. In children and adults labled but never medicated the evidence clearly shows that their frontal cortexes are no different than those of normal people. Therefore, we have now debunked the science myth and the brain malformed myth. You see as it gets debunked they just come up with more BS claims about it because, their method lacks all scientific credibility. So, in essence, they are no different than creationists argueing that God created humanity and everything else 6000 years ago and T-Rex rode with Noa a few cows and a few people on an arch that has never been found in a flood that killed off the entire population for which no DNA evidence proves a bottle neck of that magnitude occurred. So we know this story is FICTION the evidence doesn't support it. But don't take it from me once again. Evaluate the evidence.

Clearly many here have not done that. If you are going to speak to ADHD please do your research and know what you are saying.

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