I think my daughter may have a learning dissability

Hi i am new to this site, My name is Sharon i have 4 children, i think they all have a learning difficulty but my concerns are more for my 7yr old daughter. She is currently just finished yr2 and will be going into yr3 in Sept. The tests most 7yr old take to see where they are at was not taken by my daughter as she can't read the questions, she can write but to us adults looks like gobbledy gook, she is also not too good with maths. The teacher did an assessment on her and put her at level 1 at everything, she is very hyper, her memory is poor, at school she seems not too bad behaviour wise, although they do say she is immature for her age, still not sharing, can act impulsively hurting other people or saying nasty things, they also say she is an energetic member of the class. At home she is very hyper, she doesn't see danger nearly been run over lots of times recently, she thinks when one car as passed which normally is the case we cross the road one day there were 3 cars passing after the first car she proceeded to run into the road luckily the car wasn't going too fast and stopped, another time she ran into the road trying to get to her grandad who was on the same path but ahead but there were a lot of people on the path so rather than barging through which she would have done when she was younger and knocking them flying she thought it would be quicker to go onto road and go around the people into an oncoming car missed her by a cm literally again luckily the car wasn't going too fast and stopped, there are lots of incidents like this. She has seen a speech therapist due to immature speech, they put her behind with understanding, expressive, receptive by 2 yrs. Growing up she never crawled, didn't point or babble never waved or said hello in fact even now she does this but not as bad she will wave to me but it as taken years to get there, she also doesn't like change espectially if she doesn't know about it, she had a mental episode literally when i changed the furniture out of the blue, because she can't explain it is more behaviour she expresses at this time she went around repeating me the tv and herself at least 4 times, she went even more hyper jumped on bed and sofa, and tapping things, i have now bought a trampoline to bounce to her hearts content, she is a very anxious child, does attention seeking behaviour but doesn't like attention concentrated on her ie if made to stand in front of people at doctors all attention on her, she also as a foot problem where she doesn't like wearing shoes and socks and complains of lines in the socks, some days she can be lovely then others she is terrible, but always hyper, sometimes her sleep is disturbed as she even runs in her sleep, she still wets the bed. She is on the sen register at school, i am not sure if she as an iep. She also has more feelings for things more than people and animals, a plane crashed killing people and she said that poor plane, she will say hello to dogs, cats and even bees but even acknowledge a person if they say hello. I don't know what to do wether to wait and see, i know she won't grow out of it as she as shown all behaviour since she was 1, what would you do? Sharon x

Hi thank you for the reply i forgot to mention that she as been also seen by a psychologist but she put it down to me and her dad splitting up and put me on a parenting course which will help to control some of the behaviour but won't stop it she can be hard work as she expresses her emotions tantrums rather than explaining what is wrong with her so obviously stresses me out before we get down to the bottom of things. She as also recently been diagnosed with reflux by a barium meal, she has been doing the behaviours since she was about 1yr old so it hasn't happened overnight, i think they want to just fob me off, at the time i was also stressed due to us splitting up so i was weak and took what was said, but i am composing myself ready to fight next time, the parenting course starts in autumn. Sharon x

Thankyou scifinut, i was speaking to a friend of mine last night that also struggled to get her son diagnosed it took her until he was 10yrs old and also the teachers saying that nothing is wrong although he was starting to cause scenes in the class room due to frustration and when he was diagnosed the teachers were like well i didn't think he had it as he isn't hyper as he was diagnosed with adhd he was also diagnosed with mild learning difficulties so she has also had a fight on her hands. Another friend of mine her daughter who is 4 is also on a diagnosis for adhd and she did similar things to Melissa other than she was forward in speech and potty training, they turned down the parenting class saying that she doesn't need it that it is something wrong with her but she had her partner the childs dad stand by her my ex my daughters dad is burying his head and saying nothing wrong with her and that she will come on at school doesn't see her anxiety as a problem, he is in denial, her favourite toys are dinosaurs, she reanacts scenes out of films with her toys, she as a big interest in aeroplanes we visit airport regularly as we live near one.

My older daughter who is 14yrs old next month as had sensory issues for a long time, she now cuts labels out as to wear certain shoes and socks but doesn't like change, does little eye contact and is very eccentric she is gifted in art she will draw for hours and hours on end doesn't socialise much like you would think teenagers would, she is happy to sit by herself with music on drawing, i want her to go to art college, she is also immature in her age, she can also be clumsy and her stance the way she walks looks clumsy hard to describe. My son as anger issues and also did a lot of autistic behaviours when younger like lining up cars and obsessions and wasn't social but i knew nothing then as i was young and naive i remember the teacher saying something and i said so what he likes his own company what is wrong with that, he had depression episodes and was also anxious he was put on a programme for kids that were struggling he is also colour blind, my younger daughter at the moment uses left hand for everything but does switch now and again but is mainly left handed, i know there behaviours are not normal or not to the extent they are doing it, my younger daughter is not getting the fact that you don't go around hitting kids or pushing them but she is only 2 so i am hoping she will grow out of it and her speech isn't too good also but she lost speech around the time she had mmr but i am allergic to something used in injections as i have been tested she knew 10words then lost them at 14mths but then regained them at 2yrs old she is now 2 and half, she is very aggressive but also very hyper, i am just going to keep an eye on her but i am pushing for speech therapy which i regret not doing for my other daughter who struggled and still has immature speech. Thank you again for the reply. Sharon x

Sorry Mandi i didn't make myself clear i am in uk and the criteria is probably different from where you are it is a very prolonged process and they don't just go by what the parents say the child also has to be difficult in school, and obviously lots of other symptoms like the hyperness, attention and normally a learning disability goes hand in hand with cross over of other disabilitys like autism, dyspraxia, aspergers etc i didn't mean just the behaviour side of things also they are behind in other things like immaturity and communication, the teacher as to fill in a questionaire and send reports in but unbeknowingly to them who thought he was ok the professionals saw that he wasn't as it was affecting his whole school life although they did write a paragraph that in their opinion he is just a little behind and frustrated, i didn't know teachers could diagnose these days, multi tasking and i do know what you mean about kids behaviour but when your kid at 7 is tantruming because she can't explain herself which is what a typical toddler does that is when you know something is wrong yes she does try it on like all kids do even children with disabilities do. I have read a lot up about it i just don't want her to struggle and think it is her problem, i also know kids that had undiagnosed adhd so obviously no drugs or help and they struggled through schooling suffered depression and to top it all off one of the kids as just been diagnosed epileptic which apparantly kids that go undiagnosed can get this i think about 30% what i remember if i have facts right. Sharon x

Actually, you may or may not be right about ADHD being real. To be blunt i don't know if it is or is not. No one does. Not even the DSM. Why? Because there is nothing organic that can be pointed to that supports it's existence. By the same token, i have never been presented with any evidence of any organic or scientifically measurable hard anything that would indicate that it does not exist. And this is a fact. But you don't need to take it from me because NIMH has said it. I am simply going in accordance with the standard view. Which is that no one knows what it is. But for some reason some experts feel that some people display these symptoms. They choose to call these symptoms ADHD. They can link it to NOTHING organic. There is NOTHING in the DNA that they have yet produced that even shows that ADHD is genetic. (which it very well could be i have also not been presented with any evidence that it is not genetic. Though recent evidence has been documented that supports the view that bi polar is not genetic this was written up quite recently in some journal or other. And i know atleast one prominent doctor in Boston MA in the usa who declares that ADHD is just the way bi polar effects children.)

You can not get a clear answer as to weather anyone has it at the moment because there is no scientifically credible method of gathering measurable evidence of ADHD. But i am just an archaeologist married to PHD in theoretical physics, what can i possibly know about science? Even my husband was scandalized when he read about how it is diagnosed and what the standard procedures are for diagnoses and was horrified by the lack of evidence that testifies to it's existance when you take into account that millions of children round the world are being pumped full of the equivalent of cocaine in it's name. The fact remains in 1980 this LD was voted by a showing of hands into a disorder to be put in the DSM by a group of people sitting around together having a chat. What is more, the fact that it is listed as a disorder clearly speaks to the fact that there is no evidence of any scientifically measurable anything has been provided to prove it is anymore real than Santa Clause.

I happen to be labled with it yet i have been said by half the shrinks i see that i have it. The other half say i don't. I have seen some in the same day just to see and said the same thing to both and exhibited the same behaviors to both. And these both harvard educated professionals came to very different conclusions as to weather or not i had it. As they are not really measuring anything at all. It is simply a matter of subjectiive opinion.

To my knowledge, no teacher can diagnose any such thing. However often in the usa teachers recommend very commonly parents take their kids in for testing. They are a critical part as so long as you have a single complaining teacher over the course of 12 years of study at any given point in that period of study, and so long as the parents freak out that a teacher is coming to them saying something could be wrong with their kid... Suddenly everything goes bonkers.

In highschool senior year second semester i had a friend. He was a straight A student except in math where he pulled C+ B-on average. Well his math teacher told his parents he might have ADHD. His parents decided to get him diagnosed. So he got letters from every teacher he has had since the first grade all of them documenting that he was a perfect student. However, at the umm "evaluation" (kangaroo court) they read only 1 letter before diagnosing him with ADHD while he went in and simply sat in silence the whole time refusing to respond as he didn't want any part of it. And guess what? He sat there quietly and politely answered no questions refused like a good old fashioned quaker to get involved but was very peaceful. They labled this kid and they pumped him full of drugs. Now he has turrets symptoms that will never go away and his frontal lobe has shrunk by 4% as a result of the drugs. Sorry but that is not a diagnosis. That is child abuse.

Europe is less on the band wagon of feed children cocaine than the USA is. Something is apparently not right with your daughter. You are right to be worried and youa re right to be concerned and it makes logical sense that you take her in to have her figured out by professionals however, i wouldn't say the ADHD word though if i were you. Instead i would look into language based learning disabilities because you may find if she gets help for those her behavior may begin to change rather significantly. If i were you this would be my first step and anyone that told me to medicate my 7 year old for ADHD i would give the finger to. If later after treatment for that things don't gradually change, then in a couple years i might go back and have a second evaluation to see if they missed anything the first time. At which time if they said ADHD i would get several second opinions and then march myself to an herbalist and a psychologist and avoid all medication until my child's developing brain was done developing at which point i may encourage my child to see someone to explore the possibility of medication and what it might have to offer.

Next, there is NO tie between ADHD and anything organic. Epilepsy is organic. I am sure there are some people with ADHD who do have or get epilepsy. However, these to things are by no means linked i would know as i have taken the time to study what i have been labled with in extensive detail. I did not come to my conclusions over night but i began my reasearch nearly 15 years ago. Since then i read everything. All the studies i have seen no such study. And even if it did exist i would question who payed for it and how many similar studies before it had been stopped as the results were not to the drug company's liking. Along with researching my own LD i have researched this field in exhorbitant detail. And then there is the fact that i study ancient dead hominids and one of the critical things i study is the brain. I am not brain surgeon but my grasp of the brain is better than that of the average person as a result of my profession. So, as i said if i were you i would look into the language issue leave the ADHD thing alone for now and maybe revisit it depending on the results of dealing with the language issue.

And as you pointed out that i am american i would have you know i have lived all over the world and am presently iN Vienna's posh 8th district of bohoness. I have spent time in UK and in korea and finland sweden and canada among other places. And though the USA has the m0ost messed up system of ADHD diagnosis in the world the UK system in recent history has been gradually gaining.

You are correct as well there can be other causes of the behaviors of ADHD. Such as various forms of abuse. Also over 400 physical and scientifically measurable health problems of a wide variety.

You have a low thyroid and it causes depression for you? Am i understanding that right? Yes you SHOULD treat that with medication. You are treating something that they can show you that they can test for organically. ADHD is different. It isn't the same in that respect you are medicating the brain with cocaine which is not good for anyone's brain sorry it is not. What is more no one has ever presented evidence that the ADHD brain is in point of fact different from that of the normal brain. They can find and they have presented no difference between the 2. It is a fact the medications for ADHD effect those with ADHD the exact same way as they effect those with out it. But don't take my word. I am sure DRHD someone who sometimes posts here who seems to be quite well versed in this stuff would tell you the same thing i am saying here, bevcause it is true. What is more, these drugs STOP working after roughly 3 years of use. In that time they have been known to and proven to shrink the frontal lobe (self editing center of the brain also responsible for logic) in some cases they cause life long turretts symptoms, weight loss or gain heart problems. (I had to stand in a school hallway when i was only a few years older than your daughter courtesy of ritalin while a good friend of mine died of heart failure caused by said ritalin.) I would argue that the costs out weigh the pros. Especiallyy as medication is only a temporary fix of upto 3 years.

I don't know what is wrong with your other daughter nor am i well versed in any LDs besides the 2 i have been said to have one of which i do consider quite legitimate. Dyslexia and ADHD. So it could be that whatever is going on with your other daughter, she truly is better off on the medication she is on. But for ADHD, it is generallyy not a good idea. Lastly, the brain in children is developing. We don't understand the brain as well as we would like yet. For that reason, it seems like a poor idea to pump a child's brain full of cocaine. If when the brain is still not working right and it is fullyy developed then maybe it is a better time to put chemicals into it as something truly isn't right. It could still develop out of this phase at some point until it is done developing no matter how unlikely you might think it is. it still could happen. And this is why i say drugging for ADHD in vast general BAD idea. Atleast for children as none of these drugs were ever actually designed to be used on the brains of children. These drugs were designed for adults. So sorry but it smells bad to me. Also getting a child a lable like ADHD causes problems later down the line that parents never stop to consider. They want to make sure their kid gets the best education which is great. You should do that. But you should not forget, that these lables get many people fired fromt heir jobs, and make it more difficult for them to find work, even when they are fully and effectively treated. People have alot of fear of the ADHD diagnosed. So think long and hard and carefully first. Think that having your daughter diagnosed with ADHD could make her unable to work so what is it that you are working so hard to get her educated for??? It seems better to first treat the language issues and then maybe later revisit ADHD if things are still a mess. But that is just my thoughts on the matter after living through this diagnosis and hearing the stories of the far less fortunate. Seriously you should read the adults with LD section of this forum in detail before you havve this done to your child. (ADHD diagnosis) but the speech thing you need to nip in the butt.

Best of luck!

She has sensory issues. She probably has Hyper muscle tone. Read the book "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Kranowitz.

The school can provide occupational therapies. They can give her weighted vest to wear 20 minutes on and 20 minutes off. She can also get a wiggle pad which is a squooshy pad to put on the seat so she can have more attention in class. Also, if she doesn't sleep at night, you can try a weighted blanket. Her body is seeking pressure. Things like swinging, rolling in a blanket, trampoline, playing with shaving cream or playdo are all techniques to redirect the nervous system. A private occupational therapist might also suggest the brushing and joint compressions to calm her down. She can also wear her socks inside out so the seam doesn't bother her.

I'm suprised no one picked up on her sensory issues. Let us know what you think.

Annette

Hi thank you Annette i think they were too quick to fob me off as a neurotic mum due to me and her dad splitting up and using that as the reason for her problems. But i was also quite weak at the time, physically and mentally drained so to be honest not much fight power i should have put my foot down, even the teacher was making out she was fine she was doing ok, if she was doing ok then why didn't she sit the sats test, because she couldn't read or write that is why, but obviously that is ok, she is in the bottom 5 out of 68 children 2 are definately below her one is autistic and another is looking like he may be she is the only girl in the bottom 5 i only know as i know all the parents. I went to added classes with her and this were for children struggling and they thought the reason being was because we weren't doing anything 10 were invited but only 5 turned up and we were consistent showing that we did care about their education they then tested us to see if they get it from us, i was a bright child, i did struggle at school more to do with lack of understanding and being scared to ask the teacher i know if i would have had the confidence i would have excelled i have now a lot of qaulifactions i did go to uni but due to children i found it very hard and i noticed i didn't spend quality time with my children so after a year i dropped out i did pass the year though it is hard.

Hi thanks again Mandi yes i know what you are saying as in the "olden days" people just kept quiet things weren't allowed to be in the open if they were struggling due to being shoved in the mental home and drugged to the eyeballs and then life would never be the same so they daren't come out of the woodwork also it wasn't socially acceptable whereas now they are encouraged to be open and problems are dealt with so that is why there are more mental health issues which is society related as we allow it, which isn't a bad thing but everyone is individual some try and deal with it themselves, as for adhd children i remember children in my class being the same i don't know what became of them but i remember them as being well known with the behaviour then in high school they were hardly ever there so i can't see it being too good probably left with no exam results i do feel for them, they do these sats to see who is falling behind and get more help to get them up to the standards but obviously some children need more help and different learning stratergies. My daughter as always been in the bottom table and i do know that a lot of her behaviour is probably due to frustration as i do think she is a bright child it is the reading and the writing that is letting her down she obviously sees things differently as she reads the maths numbers back to front if 2 digits, all her fine motor skills are delayed she still struggles with knife and fork, riding bikes without stableizers on but my older daughter was 10 before she got it, getting dressed like the buttons and zips she still struggles with also cutting paper apparantly it says in her report she needs to practice to help with her fine motor skills, basically i knew she was going to be behind due to her speech being behind she was nearly 3 and half before she could be understood and even then she got sentences wrong way around, she now says hew for new, husic for music, cuitar for guitar mem for them men for then and a lot more but speech therapist said that she is within age limit to be still doing this and then found that her expressive and receptive language is 2yrs behind which she said can be normal as some children don't develop it as quickly as others waiting for another appt as i said i want one otherwise she would have dismissed her, she is doing all this behaviour but yet they say she is ok, i don't get it and then some kids get everything???? I think they think she will come on after a while because of me and her dad splitting i really think they have got it into their heads that is the problem they are so wrong. The saying can't see the wood for the trees comes to mind, sorry i am rambling but as you can see i am frustrated with the system i find that once they judge they get there heads together and come out with a wrong answer i am summoning my strength ready for the next fight but this time i will be ready for them they won't know what as hit them. Thanks again for the replys. Sharon x

I agree its all complicated. Maybe services in the UK are different than the US.

I was born in 1965. There was no such help for kids in school. Even if parents wanted help, there was nothing available in the 1970's. Everybody with a mental problem was labeled with "schizophrenia". Depression was not recognized and/or not treated.

From my reading on developmental books, 20 years worth of research has been done going backwards. Taking an adult who is jobless and/or in the criminial system. Going back to problems in school and as far back as preschool and infancy. The same data is true for those in the mental health system. Taking the crazy adult, going back to learning problems in school, family problems and trackable behaviors back in toddler years.

Today, the US has Early Intervention Programs. It is believed that if we can change some of this crap in the early years, our child can grow to be a competant adult and may not have to be a dropout from school and in the criminal system or mental health system.

I, personally, believe that these therapies and school interventions helped my kids. I believe my son could be that basket case of a child had we not had the opportunity for therapies. I believe there is alot of hope for kids as they grow into adults and hope for society as a whole.

Over a long period of time, things change. Take one day at a time with your kids to address the issues little by little. You will have alot of knowledge to offer someone else that you know.

Annette

I don't know why your splitting up with her dad, was brought out as the cause of your daughter's problems. It's hard to respond appropriately to that question without implying competency issues of the therapist or whomever you are seeing. I think, sometimes all of us, even professsionals see 1 thing and focus on it. Whereas, a really good physician, will look deeper, research more and take into account the whole development of the child over a period of years since infancy. Sometimes, good help is hard to find.
[Modified by: annette10dance on July 27, 2009 01:11 PM]

Annette

With early identification, effective instruction, and minor adaptations, most children with an LD can become as successful as any other member of society.General aspects of learning can also be measured and used to determine the level at which individuals might be expected to apply adaptive strategies. A number of relatively new assessment technologies are able to evaluate a learner's ability to recognize and represent meaning in different forms.

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Hi Shaz.I am a mom with 3 boys that also have had problems with reading and being hyper. They went thru school without being diagnosed because there problems were not so severe. It did affect there school work and there social life in the playground. I now regret not insisting at school to get them tested. They are in high school and still struggling but have learned to cope. Have you been able to get a diagnosis for your 7yr. old daughter yet? If the school is too slow maybe if you went thru your family doctor he could get the ball running by providing you with a note so you could take it to school or even outside help to identify what the problem may be.A learning disability is a neurological disorder which is usually present from birth and these learning disabilities can involve basic reading, basic comprehension,listening, expressive or receptive language, written expression, writing, math, social skills,attention and memory.I hope you can get some sort of help because this is probably stressing you and your family.These learning disabilities are all treatable.Hang in there and don't give up because you are the only one that can advocate for your children.Hope to hear good news from you.