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Teaching Students with LD and ADHD

CAPD a fad?


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Posts: 69138
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Posted Mar 14, 2001 at 12:00:01 AM
Subject: CAPD a fad?

Hello Everyone,The comment in the subject line is what my ds' pediatrician told me CAPD is. He also said that if I took him to an audiologist for testing, he was 100% sure we would be told he had it and that he's never heard of someone being evaluated and "not" have CAPD.This conversation took place because I needed a "medically necessary" letter from our primary care clinic in order for the insurance company to pay for CAPD testing. He did scribble the info I needed on a rx sheet, but a low-key heated discussion ensued regarding my ds' ADHD label given to him when in 1st grade. He's in 6th now and I've been homeschooling him since 4th grade.I wanted to post what the MD said to me and get some feedback from all who care to provide it. Thanks!Kristi

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 69138

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

I am by no means an expert in CAPD, but as no one has responded to your post I thought I would. There is no doubt that there is an auditory processing area of the brain (which is what the "central" refers to). For any part of the brain that has a particular job to do there is the possibility it won't be working optimally so there is some disorder associated with its less than optimal function. There is a medical literature on this topic including studies that compare children with and without CAPD on various kinds of tests. It is true that CAPD is getting more discussion than in the past and schools of audiology vary in their teachings on the subject. My son was referred for a standard hearing exam eight years ago and his hearing acuity was normal, but because he was already diagnosed ADD and LD, the audiologist recommended a test for CAPD (which only some audiologists are trained to do). I did not follow through at the time and forgot about it. Recently going through his medical records I rediscovered this recommendation. After reading this board and realizing there are some therapies directed at this specific problem I decided to pursue testing. In my HMO I need a referral from the primary care doctor. He told me it wasn't covered by the plan. However, I called member services and they said audiology services are covered and gave me a list of providers. I started calling them and found one (at a well known major medical center) who does the testing and has tested many patients who had the service covered by my HMO. Presumably medical centers with a national reputation are not practicing quackery so this alone says that CAPD is considered a real diagnosis. It may be that nearly everyone who gets tested for CAPD gets told they have it because so few children ever get tested for it and there is a highly selective process as to who gets referred at all (just look at the difficulty we are having getting referrals). Perhaps this means the medical community's understanding of auditory processing problems is in its infancy and imprecise, but its certainly not the only diagnosis in medicine for which this is true. Your doctor would probably refer for testing of many other poorly understood conditions. Try working backwards - that is find out what audiologist in your plan is qualified in this area, whether other children regularly get covered for this service, get literature and referral criteria from the audiologist and go through the LD testing your child most recently had looking for clues. If your child also qualifies for speech therapy the speech therapist could perhaps help you with this. Good luck.

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

I agree with Mary that a very select population gets tested which accounts for large positive rate. I do know people though who did have diagnosis of no CAPD though. My son was diagnosed with CAPD last year at 7 but had been told it was a possibility when he was 3 and going through speech and language evals.Hello Everyone,: The comment in the subject line is what my ds' pediatrician told me
: CAPD is. He also said that if I took him to an audiologist for
: testing, he was 100% sure we would be told he had it and that he's
: never heard of someone being evaluated and "not" have
: CAPD.: This conversation took place because I needed a "medically
: necessary" letter from our primary care clinic in order for
: the insurance company to pay for CAPD testing. He did scribble the
: info I needed on a rx sheet, but a low-key heated discussion
: ensued regarding my ds' ADHD label given to him when in 1st grade.
: He's in 6th now and I've been homeschooling him since 4th grade.: I wanted to post what the MD said to me and get some feedback from
: all who care to provide it. Thanks!: Kristi

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 69138

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

I was told that by the school audiologist a couple years ago. Since then, I took my child to a University research center on CAPD. They were able to show in their testing that in a normal 22 student classroom, my child could only hear 56% of the information (they similuated this environment.) In soundbooth, she was 100%. I was told 84% was normal (so everyone has some degree of loss in a noisy environment.)This center tested a number of classrooms and they found that about 20% of a 1st grade children exhibited CAPD problems. (so in their tests, 80% of the children they tested DID NOT HAVE IT? they tested a wider population - not just kids who were exhibiting learning problems.) CAPD is a maturation of the CANS - 60% of those kids grew out of it by 3rd grade.I understand that CAPD was first researched back in the 70's. But it was not until beginning of the 90's that it was proved that the brain does have plasticity and now you see more information about it. (the internet probably helps this effort?)Not many audiologiests even test for it.

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Hi Mary,In my original post I stated I had been homeschooling my ds for almost 3 years now (4th -6th). I'm at the point where I don't know what to do next with reading and I also have concerns regarding his memory. Why is it he has a photographic memory for people, places and events, but struggles with memorizing times tables (of which we've been doing for more than a year now) and transferring his knowledge of the phonograms to reading? I tried Spaulding our 1st year (his spelling was worse at the end of this year), and a program entitled At Last! by Mary Pecci our 2nd year. At this point, I'm real hestitant to buy into another reading program because I think there is an underlying learning issue going on.I feel as if my ds has really fallen through the cracks because he had mirror-writing while in 1st grade w/o the private school/public school addressing it. That's when I took him to Children's Learning and Behavior Clinic in Mpls and he was diagnosed with ADHD, and developmental delays in written language and math. We were also referred to an occupational therapist who did evaluate him, and recommended I do brushing techniques on his body. My son has very acute senses, but not to the point where he can't cope.He was tested again in 2nd grade, after my insistence, the ps came into his classroom, using the WJ, but did not find any LD's. Needless to say, I was confounded.When I began homeschooling him he could read individual, known words, but skipped over words and sometimes lines themselves. He could not sound-out unknown words at all. At least the latter has improved somewhat, but the vowels within words still are troublesome for him.My ds is at the point now where he's tried and failed in certain academic areas enough, that I'm afraid he's given up on himself. So, it is imperative I find some help for him and direction or advice would be very appreciated!Kristi

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

We had a discussion on this board a while ago about pre-packaged programs versus what one writer calls "roll-your-own". You might want to look back at it.Buying into pre-packaged programs is like buying anything else pre-packaged, from cake mixes to tune-ups to McDonald's meals. You'll get a general-purpose middle-of-the-road product, exactly the same each time. For people who don't know where to start, this can be a useful thing. If you have specific or special needs, it may be a poor fit.You can also design and implement your own program; the amount of material available in any one store, much less the Web, is staggering; hundreds of times more than any one child needs. The problem is not finding things, but picking and choosing. If you are willing to spend the time and energy researching your child's needs and what is the best fit, you can do a very good job at a reasonable price. It's an investment of time and energy and patience and persistence.Lots of us on the Web are more than willing to give advice at the drop of a hat, so just ask and you will receive more than you could imagine.

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Kristi, I wish I had some great insight to offer. It is surprising to me that the Clinic diagnosis includes developmental delays in language and math, he has mirror writing and great difficulty with symbolic logic, yet the school testing did not identify LDs! Were all of his WJ scores in the expected range for age? My son is now 18 and we are holding our breath until he gets through this last semester to graduate with a HS diploma from our local public school. The saving grace has been that our school system has the option of LD-only classes offering standard curriculum except with special ed trained teachers and very few students per class. He simply cannot learn unless there is some direct one on one teaching and this cannot happen in the typical mainstream class. Even so, we have always had to reteach most things at home too, so I considered him both public schooled and home schooled. He is not a behavior problem, but tends to completely fade into the woodwork and get ignored in a mainstream class while the whole world passes him by. It is also the case that our son has diagnosed absence seizures, ADD, LDs and mild exotropia (causing poor ability to track with his eyes) and therefore has always been followed by neurologists and offered IEPs. I believe these are all manifestations of some problem in his brain function, but we don't know exactly what. I have never been able to tell when he is having an absence seizure but they are clearly there on EEG. It is distressing to me that he cannot function without two medications - Depakote for the seizures and Ritalin-SR for the ADD. I hate giving him these every day, but I think of them as "neurotransmitter soup." With these on board he can reasonably attend to the task at hand, but without them he is completely unable to do so. It took us until he was in 3rd grade to get this regimen sorted out and there was a remarkable difference in his learning afterwards. That is not to say that he is at age level abilities, but the progress is steady at his own pace. He is probably about 7-8th grade equivalent in reading now. The reading program that helped him a lot in elementary school was called Distar and used special orthography in which, long vowel sounds are written differently than short vowel sounds. Of course the kids have to be weaned off of this to standard text after they develop phonemic awareness and some fluency. It is very good for my son's damaged self esteem to have friends with similar issues in the special ed classrooms. I am hoping that when he is in his mid to late 20s he will have caught up to average adult abilities and just be another adult guy in the crowd. Sometimes by the time a kid is several years behind on reading ability it is easier to get the LD coding and special services. You might want to see what is offered in the realm of special ed in your middle schools. Perhaps he should have an EEG. Absence seizures often go undiagnosed for years, as was the case with the daughter of someone I know. Best wishes, Mary

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Hi Victoria,That's basically what I've been doing with him this year. I read aloud everyday, as well as have him read along with an audio book before bed. He also reads aloud to me daily, and since he's very competitive, I've made a game out it. Everytime he works at sounding out an unknown word, he gets a point...if he guesses at it, I get the point. Also, if he uses his finger during the entire reading time, he gets 5 bonus points. Otherwise, I get them. When he comes to a word he doesn't know, I write it down, breaking it apart, or highlight an important element (blend, two vowels, etc.). I keep his read-aloud time to one chapter a day in a reading level that he's mostly successful at (right now he's reading "A Lion to Guard Us" by Bulla and it seems a good fit). He also likes the Childhood of Famous Americans series, and we use those also.With spelling, I take mispelled words out of his writing (which he does a little each day), and either highlight a rule(s) one or more of the words may cover, or break down larger ones into syllables. I've been using a roll-over technique (anyway, that's what I call it!). After awhile, I let old words drop when I add a few new. Otherwise, he's a "Ace the test on Friday, Forever Forgotten Afterwards" type, so I don't give "Friday Tests". I hope I made my thoughts clear on how we do this!I wanted to develop something that would keep his eyes on track and to break the word-guessing habit, while also continuing the work on decoding. Anyway, that's my home-made program!What do you think?Kristi

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 69138

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Certainly everything you're doing sounds valuable and productive. A couple of thoughts, which you may be doing already, but if not, these can help:Try a developmental graded reading series with controlled vocabulary. I haunt used book stores and school/library book sales, or you could use one bought through the web. We've just seen advice on the Oxford Reading Tree for example, and I'm going to try to get more info on it. Used bookstores/sales are much cheaper, however. You can get entire series of texts for a few dollars per book. Get something with a vocabulary list in the back, but also check that you can get along with the content and style (no point using a book you wouldn't ordinarily allow through your door.) While reading novels is great, and is one of the end goals of a reading program, slogging through a developmental series is one way to move up to higher levels. With novels and other interest books, it's easy to get stuck on a comfortable plateau. When using a graded series, always start out a little below the level you have reached elsewhere, to give some easier practice while getting used to the new system; but then move up steadily. The controlled vocabulary fights word-guessing in two ways - the old vocabulary is familiar and frequently repeated, so it becomes automatized, and the new vocabulary is presented in limited quantities at a time and then repeated so there is a chance to learn each word as it comes and then use it. As a graded series gets harder and harder, guessing becomes less and less productive.If possible, get some workbooks that go with your reading series. Schools often sell off discontinued sets. These also help with vocabulary development and work against guessing. If you can't, get some commercial comprehension workbooks, in a graded series. My favourite source, Scholar's Choice, has a ton of material. Slogging through a comprehension workbook not only teaches whatever comprehension skills are included, but also provides a combination reading-and-writing practice that is excellent for tracking.Similarly, work through a graded phonics series (I sound like a salesperson for Scholar's Choice Check and Double-Check; I'm not, it's just a really good down-to-earth and inexpensive series.) A good phonics workbook will also include printing/writing practice, good for spelling and also for tracking.Another thought on tracking: fingers are good in pre-primers with large type, but it's hard to finger-point at words in more advanced books. I use a pointer, either a pen with cap in, or a dull pencil, or a small pointed stick.Some people put a ruler under the line; I really, really dislike that, as it makes reading incredibly laborious, having to realign the ruler with each line, up to thirty times a page; it prevents scanning a few words ahead, as a good reader does, so it's counter-productive in developing advanced reading skills; and I have never seen a ruler-reader who was tracking any better anyway.I have found through experience that I cannot off the top of my head re-create an entire reading program. Using some of these graded series reminds me of topics I haven't taught yet and presents material in different and interesting ways, within a consistent structure. And the student is motivated by seeing all that he has completed.Your "points" game is fun. I hand out gold stars and sometimes certificates (available at teachers' stores, or computer print). Prizes in the form of books or other valuable learning tools are nice. I'm strongly against food and cash rewards, and many things I've read recommend against them as leading to an escalation of rewards and losing sight of academic goals.Hope some of these ideas are a help to you: Hi Victoria,: That's basically what I've been doing with him this year. I read
: aloud everyday, as well as have him read along with an audio book
: before bed. He also reads aloud to me daily, and since he's very
: competitive, I've made a game out it. Everytime he works at
: sounding out an unknown word, he gets a point...if he guesses at
: it, I get the point. Also, if he uses his finger during the entire
: reading time, he gets 5 bonus points. Otherwise, I get them. When
: he comes to a word he doesn't know, I write it down, breaking it
: apart, or highlight an important element (blend, two vowels,
: etc.). I keep his read-aloud time to one chapter a day in a
: reading level that he's mostly successful at (right now he's
: reading "A Lion to Guard Us" by Bulla and it seems a
: good fit). He also likes the Childhood of Famous Americans series,
: and we use those also.: With spelling, I take mispelled words out of his writing (which he
: does a little each day), and either highlight a rule(s) one or
: more of the words may cover, or break down larger ones into
: syllables. I've been using a roll-over technique (anyway, that's
: what I call it!). After awhile, I let old words drop when I add a
: few new. Otherwise, he's a "Ace the test on Friday, Forever
: Forgotten Afterwards" type, so I don't give "Friday
: Tests". I hope I made my thoughts clear on how we do this!: I wanted to develop something that would keep his eyes on track and
: to break the word-guessing habit, while also continuing the work
: on decoding. Anyway, that's my home-made program!: What do you think?: Kristi

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 69138

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM
Subject:Re: Readers

I have each level reader in the series titled, The Ginn Basic Readers, Revised Edition. These were put out in the late 50's, early 60's and do have the word lists in back. My ds and I love these as the pictures are wonderful as well as the stories. Unfortunately, I do not have any of the workbooks as these are REALLY hard to find. What do you think of these readers and do you know of an inexpensive/effective workbook series that I can buy to go with them? Thanks!: Certainly everything you're doing sounds valuable and productive. A
: couple of thoughts, which you may be doing already, but if not,
: these can help: Try a developmental graded reading series with
: controlled vocabulary. I haunt used book stores and school/library
: book sales, or you could use one bought through the web. We've
: just seen advice on the Oxford Reading Tree for example, and I'm
: going to try to get more info on it. Used bookstores/sales are
: much cheaper, however. You can get entire series of texts for a
: few dollars per book. Get something with a vocabulary list in the
: back, but also check that you can get along with the content and
: style (no point using a book you wouldn't ordinarily allow through
: your door.) While reading novels is great, and is one of the end
: goals of a reading program, slogging through a developmental
: series is one way to move up to higher levels. With novels and
: other interest books, it's easy to get stuck on a comfortable
: plateau. When using a graded series, always start out a little
: below the level you have reached elsewhere, to give some easier
: practice while getting used to the new system; but then move up
: steadily. The controlled vocabulary fights word-guessing in two
: ways - the old vocabulary is familiar and frequently repeated, so
: it becomes automatized, and the new vocabulary is presented in
: limited quantities at a time and then repeated so there is a
: chance to learn each word as it comes and then use it. As a graded
: series gets harder and harder, guessing becomes less and less
: productive.: If possible, get some workbooks that go with your reading series.
: Schools often sell off discontinued sets. These also help with
: vocabulary development and work against guessing. If you can't,
: get some commercial comprehension workbooks, in a graded series.
: My favourite source, Scholar's Choice, has a ton of material.
: Slogging through a comprehension workbook not only teaches
: whatever comprehension skills are included, but also provides a
: combination reading-and-writing practice that is excellent for
: tracking.: Similarly, work through a graded phonics series (I sound like a
: salesperson for Scholar's Choice Check and Double-Check; I'm not,
: it's just a really good down-to-earth and inexpensive series.) A
: good phonics workbook will also include printing/writing practice,
: good for spelling and also for tracking.: Another thought on tracking: fingers are good in pre-primers with
: large type, but it's hard to finger-point at words in more
: advanced books. I use a pointer, either a pen with cap in, or a
: dull pencil, or a small pointed stick.: Some people put a ruler under the line; I really, really dislike
: that, as it makes reading incredibly laborious, having to realign
: the ruler with each line, up to thirty times a page; it prevents
: scanning a few words ahead, as a good reader does, so it's
: counter-productive in developing advanced reading skills; and I
: have never seen a ruler-reader who was tracking any better anyway.: I have found through experience that I cannot off the top of my head
: re-create an entire reading program. Using some of these graded
: series reminds me of topics I haven't taught yet and presents
: material in different and interesting ways, within a consistent
: structure. And the student is motivated by seeing all that he has
: completed.: Your "points" game is fun. I hand out gold stars and
: sometimes certificates (available at teachers' stores, or computer
: print). Prizes in the form of books or other valuable learning
: tools are nice. I'm strongly against food and cash rewards, and
: many things I've read recommend against them as leading to an
: escalation of rewards and losing sight of academic goals.: Hope some of these ideas are a help to you

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 69138

Other Topics
Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM
Subject:Re: Readers

: I have each level reader in the series titled, The Ginn Basic
: Readers, Revised Edition. These were put out in the late 50's,
: early 60's and do have the word lists in back. My ds and I love
: these as the pictures are wonderful as well as the stories.
: Unfortunately, I do not have any of the workbooks as these are
: REALLY hard to find. What do you think of these readers and do you
: know of an inexpensive/effective workbook series that I can buy to
: go with them? Thanks!Yes, I have several of these; I think this is the set that includes "On Cherry Street", a really nice early reader.If you want to hunt up old workbooks, amazingly enough some are still around, and surprising stuff shows up online. Try Amazon auctions, eBay auctions, and Bibliofind. Even if you can't find a complete set, but workbooks for one or two of your readers, they provide good renforcement and lots of ideas for exercises you can do with other books.With computer printers, you can use workbooks frok one book as a model and make up similar exercises from another book.Since the workbooks are rare and expensive, I photocopy them and write only on the photocopies (legal to make a single copy for educational purposes.) You can 3-hole punch the copies and keep them in a neat three-prong folder as a workbook (I hate loose sheets -- messy, and no sign of progress through the sequence.)If you want to buy a series of workbooks, go to the Scholar's Choice website and look under the "comprehension" section. They have more than you can use.Good hunting!

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