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Auditory discrimination and reading


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Posts: 69140
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Posted Mar 14, 2001 at 12:00:01 AM
Subject: Auditory discrimination and reading

How much does auditory discrimination and speech articulation effect your reading ability? AND what is best way to approach?My dd does have some speech articulation problems (difficulty with r's, th's etc.). She also has auditory discrimination problems - word endings in particular. 2 years ago this was a huge problem for her on auditory processing tests(5th %tile), but her last test showed 50%tile. However, in her writing she drops word endings off. She also tends to not want to decode the whole word - gets to the first sounds, guesses etc. Is this all related?We practice blending alot, need to probably do more segmenting work?? Her segmenting is not bad if the word is said slow and clear to her. I don't think she gets it in normal conversation? Is this enough? Is there anything else we should work/practice. I'm wondering if we need to do more auditory processing work - like Earobics or FFW? I've ruled out LMB because can't find a local provider that's feasible.I was told that speech/language therapy will help (and I don't disagree for articulation- but will an SLP also help with the auditory discrimination piece?).I'm confident that she knows how to read - she just makes so many mistakes when the words get harder. Will these issues go away with lots of practice? I'ld like to just continue what we are doing, but worry I'm not doing all I should be?P.S. we just started working on the sound /oi/ /oy/ this week. She had a real hard time with this sound, esp. if there was an 'r' next to it. 'Broil' was very difficult for her to decode, as well as 'royal'.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

: The short answer to your good question is maybe.It might be that her auditory processing issues affect her reading. It is true that our relationship with spoken language can affect our relationship with written language or reading. When we begin to read, our ability to decode what we we're reading needs to layer onto what we already know of language from speaking it.In the meantime, yes, speech language therapy can address auditory discrimination issues as well as articulation issues.How much does auditory discrimination and speech articulation effect
: your reading ability? AND what is best way to approach?: My dd does have some speech articulation problems (difficulty with
: r's, th's etc.). She also has auditory discrimination problems -
: word endings in particular. 2 years ago this was a huge problem
: for her on auditory processing tests(5th %tile), but her last test
: showed 50%tile. However, in her writing she drops word endings
: off. She also tends to not want to decode the whole word - gets to
: the first sounds, guesses etc. Is this all related?: We practice blending alot, need to probably do more segmenting work??
: Her segmenting is not bad if the word is said slow and clear to
: her. I don't think she gets it in normal conversation? Is this
: enough? Is there anything else we should work/practice. I'm
: wondering if we need to do more auditory processing work - like
: Earobics or FFW? I've ruled out LMB because can't find a local
: provider that's feasible.: I was told that speech/language therapy will help (and I don't
: disagree for articulation- but will an SLP also help with the
: auditory discrimination piece?).: I'm confident that she knows how to read - she just makes so many
: mistakes when the words get harder. Will these issues go away with
: lots of practice? I'ld like to just continue what we are doing,
: but worry I'm not doing all I should be?: P.S. we just started working on the sound /oi/ /oy/ this week. She
: had a real hard time with this sound, esp. if there was an 'r'
: next to it. 'Broil' was very difficult for her to decode, as well
: as 'royal'.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

: My dd does have some speech articulation problems (difficulty with
: r's, th's etc.). She also has auditory discrimination problems -
: word endings in particular.My son was mixing up when where type words and certain word endings. He passes several hearing tests but had some trouble with one. The specialist thought he might be having periodic problems with excessive earwax....She was right on. He had such a problem with ear wax that we took him to the doctor a number of times thinking he was having ear infections. It was so bad he had to have his ears flushed out by the doctor several times. ( not something to try yourself unless you've had training since you can damage the ear.) Anyway..Something to consider before you get too involved with a lot of remediation. I do agree the speech therapist should help.2 years ago this was a huge problem
: for her on auditory processing tests(5th %tile), but her last test
: showed 50%tile. However, in her writing she drops word endings
: off. She also tends to not want to decode the whole word - gets to
: the first sounds, guesses etc. Is this all related?: We practice blending alot, need to probably do more segmenting work??
: Her segmenting is not bad if the word is said slow and clear to
: her. I don't think she gets it in normal conversation? Is this
: enough? Is there anything else we should work/practice. I'm
: wondering if we need to do more auditory processing work - like
: Earobics or FFW? I've ruled out LMB because can't find a local
: provider that's feasible.: I was told that speech/language therapy will help (and I don't
: disagree for articulation- but will an SLP also help with the
: auditory discrimination piece?).: I'm confident that she knows how to read - she just makes so many
: mistakes when the words get harder. Will these issues go away with
: lots of practice? I'ld like to just continue what we are doing,
: but worry I'm not doing all I should be?: P.S. we just started working on the sound /oi/ /oy/ this week. She
: had a real hard time with this sound, esp. if there was an 'r'
: next to it. 'Broil' was very difficult for her to decode, as well
: as 'royal'.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

I'm not an audiologist or specialist in speech pathology, so be sure to get good advice from people who know about these fields. I'll just speak to the academic reading side of things.Keep doing what you're doing. Your daughter needs to learn to "see" the sounds (phonic symbols) in words. She is learning to read, her auditory skills are improving, and if it ain't broke don't fix it. Keep on the phonics a bit at a time until it's mastered.The majority of people learn speech orally/aurally, and transfer that into reading. A small number for various reasons learn the reading first and then transfer that back to speech. It is less common to learn the printed sound first, but the transfer works either way. So keep doing what you're doing; the phonics and reading instruction will help improve her pronunciation and auditory segmenting. I have done this with students and have heard the speech improve, and seen the oral comprehension improve, over a period of a few months.(By the way, I am a learning by reading first speech later person, so I have personal experience of this -- long story, but yes, I speak from long experience)If she understands when words are spoken slowly and clearly but loses detail in ordinary speech, spend as much time as you can with her on oral reading, you to her and her to you. Speak clearly and at a moderate speed as you read. She'll get better at reading, you'll enjoy lots of books together, and she will be exposed to a lot of good quality language that would otherwise pass her by. This is useful in a number of ways but especially to keep her from losing developmentally on language.Leaving off endings in speech and writing and reading is very, very common. Rushing at words when reading is so common that it's the norm to be expected in beginners. Not desirable, but a normal effort to try to get ahead. Have her go back over the reading and correct herself. Try reading books of lower difficulty, working on accuracy and fluency, before moving up again to a higher level. With writing, work with her sounding one letter/group at a time, being sure she finishes a word. Again, skipping sounds is very common and needs practice and guided practice to overcome.Keep up the good work.: How much does auditory discrimination and speech articulation effect
: your reading ability? AND what is best way to approach?: My dd does have some speech articulation problems (difficulty with
: r's, th's etc.). She also has auditory discrimination problems -
: word endings in particular. 2 years ago this was a huge problem
: for her on auditory processing tests(5th %tile), but her last test
: showed 50%tile. However, in her writing she drops word endings
: off. She also tends to not want to decode the whole word - gets to
: the first sounds, guesses etc. Is this all related?: We practice blending alot, need to probably do more segmenting work??
: Her segmenting is not bad if the word is said slow and clear to
: her. I don't think she gets it in normal conversation? Is this
: enough? Is there anything else we should work/practice. I'm
: wondering if we need to do more auditory processing work - like
: Earobics or FFW? I've ruled out LMB because can't find a local
: provider that's feasible.: I was told that speech/language therapy will help (and I don't
: disagree for articulation- but will an SLP also help with the
: auditory discrimination piece?).: I'm confident that she knows how to read - she just makes so many
: mistakes when the words get harder. Will these issues go away with
: lots of practice? I'ld like to just continue what we are doing,
: but worry I'm not doing all I should be?: P.S. we just started working on the sound /oi/ /oy/ this week. She
: had a real hard time with this sound, esp. if there was an 'r'
: next to it. 'Broil' was very difficult for her to decode, as well
: as 'royal'.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Thanks - I think we are on the right path (but will still look into S/L help).I'm glad you mentioned the speech improving with the reading work. I was hoping this could flow over to her speech. I think I learned from reading as well.She is still young. But I do notice that she is the worst 'guesser' in her reading group at school and has difficulty with blending/segmenting more than the other kids in this group. However, there are kids who are poorer readers and poorer phonological processing skills in a couple of the other groups (she is in the top reading group- which I'm proud of her, we've come a long way over the last 2 years).

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

: My son was mixing up when where type words and certain word endings.
: He passes several hearing tests but had some trouble with one. The
: specialist thought he might be having periodic problems with
: excessive earwax....She was right on. He had such a problem with
: ear wax that we took him to the doctor a number of times thinking
: he was having ear infections. It was so bad he had to have his
: ears flushed out by the doctor several times. ( not something to
: try yourself unless you've had training since you can damage the
: ear.) Anyway..Something to consider before you get too involved
: with a lot of remediation. I do agree the speech therapist should
: help.: 2 years ago this was a huge problemI've always wondered if earwax is a problem for her. I just brought her into doctors couple weeks ago for checkup and they seemed to be clear. I do know that word endings are higher frequency sounds and that when she has an ear infection (maybe fluid too?), she cannot hear these sounds. I discovered this when she was 5 and have felt that when she was younger that we potentially had alot of undiagnosed ear infections (along with the ones that were diagnosed).

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

: I've always wondered if earwax is a problem for her. I just brought
: her into doctors couple weeks ago for checkup and they seemed to
: be clear. I do know that word endings are higher frequency sounds
: and that when she has an ear infection (maybe fluid too?), she
: cannot hear these sounds. I discovered this when she was 5 and
: have felt that when she was younger that we potentially had alot
: of undiagnosed ear infections (along with the ones that were
: diagnosed).I personally had a lot of undiagnosed ear infections. Not just infections, but post-infection blockage of Eustachian tubes, and allergy-related blockage of tubes, and scarring, can really mess up your hearing and balance. My daughter had a lot of diagnosed ear infections and we kept her clear enough (respond FAST!) that her hearing is a heck of a lot better than mine ever was. She had a bizarre earwax problem; it ran out of her ears at night and got all over her head and through her long hair and all over her pillow. It's improved with age and reduced infection. I think, if you can keep the infections clear and keep the earwax coming out rather than blocking up, that's a good thing.Anyway, people with this kind of ear blockage would tend to be those who may use reading as a guide to sounds rather than vice-versa. Do keep working on the sounds and pointing her to the fine distinctions so she trains what hearing she has, and of course work on keeping the ears clear so she has her maximum possible hearing.Personal experience -- a zero-perfume low-dust house keeps my sinuses and ears cleaner so I hear a lot better and feel better too. I replace furnace filters with 3M allergen reducing filters every two weeks or so now, and it has really helped.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Deanne,On keeping ears clear--you might be interested in our experience. A week and a half ago my son's audiologist for Neuronet "prescribed" saline solution for his negative ear pressure. We were going along fine, making great progress when suddenly he backtracked on all the body work. I thought this was strange and made a note to talk to her about it, especially since he was progressing on other things. She took one look at his sniffing and checked his ear pressure--over -200 in both ears.We did the saline solution three times a day in the nose for a week and one ear was back to 0 and the other was -100 and he was much improved on the exercises, although still not back to where he had been. I know she told us the first day about the importance of ear pressure and how she said she could tell by watching a kid do the exercises if they had negative pressue. I must admit I listened politely but didn't put a lot of stock in it. Now I am thinking that it may account for some of why he seems to be so "on" and "off", depending on the day.We used a contact solution by Alcon. It is called Unisol 4 (Preservative-free, ph-balanced Saline solution). We found it at Walgreens, I think. It comes in a 4 pack.Beth: I've always wondered if earwax is a problem for her. I just brought
: her into doctors couple weeks ago for checkup and they seemed to
: be clear. I do know that word endings are higher frequency sounds
: and that when she has an ear infection (maybe fluid too?), she
: cannot hear these sounds. I discovered this when she was 5 and
: have felt that when she was younger that we potentially had alot
: of undiagnosed ear infections (along with the ones that were
: diagnosed).

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

: I personally had a lot of undiagnosed ear infections. Not just
: infections, but post-infection blockage of Eustachian tubes, and
: allergy-related blockage of tubes, and scarring, can really mess
: up your hearing and balance. My daughter had a lot of diagnosed
: ear infections and we kept her clear enough (respond FAST!) that
: her hearing is a heck of a lot better than mine ever was. She had
: a bizarre earwax problem; it ran out of her ears at night and got
: all over her head and through her long hair and all over her
: pillow. It's improved with age and reduced infection. I think, if
: you can keep the infections clear and keep the earwax coming out
: rather than blocking up, that's a good thing.: Anyway, people with this kind of ear blockage would tend to be those
: who may use reading as a guide to sounds rather than vice-versa.
: Do keep working on the sounds and pointing her to the fine
: distinctions so she trains what hearing she has, and of course
: work on keeping the ears clear so she has her maximum possible
: hearing.: Personal experience -- a zero-perfume low-dust house keeps my sinuses
: and ears cleaner so I hear a lot better and feel better too. I
: replace furnace filters with 3M allergen reducing filters every
: two weeks or so now, and it has really helped.I think you and Beth are both right. I know she has some ear/pressure/sinus thing going on. We went on a big anti allergy/diet last spring. Have to admit we haven't been good lately. But she has been SOOOO much healtier this year than in past. You both have me convinced to go back on the anti-allergy kick again!

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

I sent you a private e-mail with question on how you use the saline.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 17, 2014
Posts: 69140

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Posted:Mar 14, 2001 12:00:01 AM

Agree especially ('cause it's what I"ve the most experience) with:: Keep doing what you're doing. Your daughter needs to learn to
: "see" the sounds (phonic symbols) in words. She is
: learning to read, her auditory skills are improving, and if it
: ain't broke don't fix it. Keep on the phonics a bit at a time
: until it's mastered.
: If she understands when words are spoken slowly and clearly but loses
: detail in ordinary speech, spend as much time as you can with her
: on oral reading, you to her and her to you. Speak clearly and at a
: moderate speed as you read. She'll get better at reading, you'll
: enjoy lots of books together, and she will be exposed to a lot of
: good quality language that would otherwise pass her by. This is
: useful in a number of ways but especially to keep her from losing
: developmentally on language.: Leaving off endings in speech and writing and reading is very, very
: common. Rushing at words when reading is so common that it's the
: norm to be expected in beginners. Not desirable, but a normal
: effort to try to get ahead. Have her go back over the reading and
: correct herself. Try reading books of lower difficulty, working on
: accuracy and fluency, before moving up again to a higher level.
: With writing, work with her sounding one letter/group at a time,
: being sure she finishes a word. Again, skipping sounds is very
: common and needs practice and guided practice to overcome.: Keep up the good work.

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