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checklist?


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Posts: 69138
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Posted Feb 28, 2002 at 12:16:42 AM
Subject: checklist?

I have read several posts lately that start with 'my child is in 4th and having problems' and with my own experience of my son qualifying for sp.ed in 4th do you teachers think there is possibly some way of coming up with a checklist or a test or something at the end of 3rd that either a parent or teacher could use to determine if a child has what he/she needs to succeed in 4th without being slammed? My own son's third was ok academically but apparently it wasn't good enough to see him into the 4th. It just seems that 4th grade is a watershed year for our sink or swim kids and so many are floundering in the water while we parents are trying to throw out a rope. Seems like there has got to be a better way. I am just making an observation and wondering what you all think.

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 17, 2014
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Posted:Feb 28, 2002 9:06:46 AM

One of the bigger differences is getting from learning to read to reading to learn. Add to that, print size shrinks and written demands are a lot bigger.

Basically, lots of kiddos with low language skills -- listening, speaking, but especially reading or writing -- can fake it K-3. Fourth, they're asked to fly solo language-wise, and if they don't have wings...splat!

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 17, 2014
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Posted:Feb 28, 2002 10:10:15 AM

You read my mind. I just logged on, thinking I might post a question about why 4th grade seems to be so much harder on my son. He had been able to progress in the regular classroom through 3rd grade but this year, even with resource room help, he has taken a nosedive, academically and emotionally.

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 17, 2014
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Posted:Feb 28, 2002 10:19:52 AM

I see 2 ways to respond to your idea. The short answer is the CELF-3 has Observation Rating Scales (I think have to be ordered separately) that are divided into 4 areas: listening, speaking, reading and writing. There are separate ones for teachers, parents and students to fill out. I like these a lot.

The other issue that you raise is when does special education begin? After the child is failing significantly! My third-grade daughter who is ADD and LD was just placed yesterday. For over 2 years we have been assessing and remediating and assessing and remediating. I knew when she was 4 that she was significantly behind her older brother and sister when they were her age. At mid- first grade when everyone else began reading the stomachaches, hating school and tantruming began. Every individually-administererd test that child took she came out with standard scores between 90-110. If the end of grade test were given this week she would fail and be on track to repeat third grade next year. She fails most reading comprehension tests that go with her weekly stories in language arts. She has failed all practice end of grade assessments. However, on the WIAT (administered individually by the school psychologist 2-3 weeks ago her standard scores were great). Her deficit areas are attention, processing and language formulation. If she was not ADD she would not qualify for services in our state (need 15 point discrepancy for LD).
Her school does have a remedial program to help kids pass the end of grade assessments but these classes are on Saturdays and are just more worksheets for practice. Her issues are not going to be helped by giving more of the same kind of practice.

I have been a speech-language pathologist for over 20 years and have been totally frustrated by the way special education works. I have used a lot of Mel Levine's ideas and took her to his center in Chapel Hill,NC for assessment. They developed a learning plan with tons of strategies that were included in her IEP. But I really find myself questioning the whole standard scores for placement issue. I could go on and on and on ........but I'll spare you!

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 17, 2014
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Posted:Feb 28, 2002 10:34:39 AM

I guess I was thinking of something along the line of the observation thing, like the celf (?) test or just a checklist of some sort. My son scored horribly on any standardized test given to all the class in the past so even that wouldn't have been help/hindrance unlike the daughter above.

He is in 7th currently doing well because of sp.ed support as well as the help and understanding of his teachers. He also is add/in and qualified under ohi. I also asked about testing and help since he was in 1st grade, I've posted before about all that went on.

I am thinking of the next generation of pre 4th kids who are going to go through all this heck along with their parents, it just seems like there should be something in place to keep this heck to a minimum. Especially for the kids who aren't so obvious ( or who are 'late bloomers').

I was writing before, at 6 this morning I honestly don't know how coherent I was since I usually don't come out of my fog til noon :o) Anyway, it was just something that was on my mind after reading about the other 4th grade parents.

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Anonymous
Joined Sep 17, 2014
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Posted:Feb 28, 2002 10:46:33 AM

I'm just a mom at home who does alot of reading and from what I had read.
The schools teach to decode in reading K-3 (verbal). And they test for simple comprehension in reading in 1-3 (concrete). From what I have been reading comprehension is not really taught (non-verbal)?? I mean where are the
comprehension programs in our class rooms? I know my dd class does very
little in the area. Reading is both, so why is it not being taught (much)?. So if your child is still having problems in 3rd with this. (you can't see inside thier mind) in 4th there is no way you will be able to keep up. Suddenly these children need extra help. They can not learn from what they read. Which is what 4th grade work is all about. Worse yet reading is not taught in any
form after 6th grade. If you didn't get it by then you are on your own. If a good program for comprehension was taught and tested the way Phonics is. I believe this problem would be seen in children alot earlier. I read a post once by a mother of a asperger child. Her child was being taught to read in the 5th grade. After he had accomplished this. He asked his mother "Why didn't they just teach me this in the beginning?" If this level of development is not capable in younger children, then why is it suppose to just (all by it self) suddenly be there for 4th grade? I think after seeing a reading comprehension program for the first time in my life (mind prime). I really feel it should be a part of the curriculm for ALL CHILDREN. Parents need more information on this, to help thier children. It must be terrible to think your child is doing fine then in fourth grade he falls apart. I mean think of it... Where does a parent start? Without this information how can we even begin to help? We do need a rope. And the rope is called infromation.

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