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Woodcock Johnson Scores and Percentile Ranks


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
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Posted Apr 01, 2002 at 10:52:51 AM
Subject: Woodcock Johnson Scores and Percentile Ranks

What if on Woodcock Johnson results, the standard score was withing 85-115 but the percentile rank is below 50%

Long Term Retreival 11% and 82
Comprehension 35% and 94
Visual Processing 32% and 93
Fluid Reasoning 20% and 87
Auditory Processing 63% and 105
Short Term Memory 38% and 95
Processing Speed 43% and 97

I have nothing to compare it too because this is the first tests ever done??

Now here is another one for ya!!

Long Term Retreival 50% and 100 79% and 112 99% and 117
Comprehension 31% and 93 50% and 100 63% and 94
Visual Processing 40% and 96 56% and 102 50% and 93
Fluid Reasoning 32% and 93 78% and 112 95% and 108
Auditory Processing 11% and 83 4% and 73 41% and 90
Short Term Memory 13% and 83 18% and 86 16% and 81
Processing Speed 6% and 77 22% and 88 2% and 69

These are two different children. One has had a substantial amount more special ed service than the other. I have read understanding tests and measurements and the bell curve. As I understood it the norm or middleof the road was 50% and the test scores were 85 o 115. So how does it work if the percentile rank is below 50% and the standard score is within the average??

Thanks Dawn

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Anonymous
Joined Jul 29, 2014
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 11:31:46 AM

25% is considered the low end of average and = Standard Score of 90.
What you should look at is the the IQ and compare it to the lowest SS on achivement. How many points difference is there between the two. It depends on the state guidelines what is considered a descrepancy. In CA it is 22 points.

Helen

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 11:51:20 AM

His full IQ score was 77. I can't seem to find verbal and performace scores. I do recall that the adminster of the test did not average out properly and the score is actually 78.

The lowest score on the woodcock johnson is 69. However I don't totally understand what comparing the two tells you??

Also I can't compare on the first child because the school wouldn't do an IQ test. We requested and they said the cognitive side of the Woodcock Johnson would be sufficient.

Thanks
K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 12:25:42 PM

I don't really understand if these are your child's scores, or many children's scores...but AVERAGE standard scores are 85-115; AVERAGE percentile ranks are 25-75th. In IQ tests(ie WISC III), average IQ is 90-110, 110-120 is above average, 120-130 is superior, and 130+ is very superior. Many states use different formulas to classify children for special ed. services; usually there needs to be a severe discepancy between ability(IQ testing) and achievement.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 12:45:04 PM

I will forget about the first set of scores. Here are the second scores I am trying to determine if the child has made any progress. What if they progressed in one area and not in another?? What if they regressed in some areas??
2nd Grade 4th Grade 7th Grade
Long Term Retreival 50% and 100, 79% and 112, 99% and 117
Comprehension 31% and 93, 50% and 100, 63% and 94
Visual Processing 40% and 96, 56% and 102, 50% and 93
Fluid Reasoning 32% and 93, 78% and 112, 95% and 108
Auditory Processing 11% and 83, 4% and 73, 41% and 90
Short Term Memory 13% and 83, 18% and 86, 16% and 81
Processing Speed 6% and 77, 22% and 88, 2% and 69

The first standard score and percentile rank are 2nd grade, the second are 4th grade and the third are 7th grade.

The IQ tests was the following:

Verbal Subtests
Information 9
Similarities 8
Arithmetic 2
Vocab 6
Comprehension 8
Digit Span 3


Performance Subtests
Picture Completion 8
Coding 2
Picture Arrangment 5
Block Design 8
Object Assembly 9
Symbol Search 5


I have a school meeting soon and would like a better understanding of these tests so I can get the right kind of help for my child.
Thanks
K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 2:35:05 PM

I think to look at progress over time you need to look at the academic achievement scores(either from the WJII tests of achievement or the WIAT, etc.), not the cognitive scores. Is this IQ testing(subtest scaled scores) the WISC III? Where are the V, P, and FS scores? I think by 4-7th grade IQ is fairly stable; it is in the reading, math, written language and oral language achievement testing that you would see change.What do the teachers think?

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 3:12:03 PM

You are posting the cognitive scores from the Woodcock Johnson. You need to post achievment scores. The cognitive is the IQ part of the W-J. Progress would be measured on the achievment scores.

Helen

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 5:27:50 PM

4th Grade 7th Grade
Reading Comprehension 79/8% 96/77%
Reading Skills 71/3% 73/8%
Basic Math Skills 100/50% 80/11%
Mathmeatics Reasoning 88/21% 93/50%
Basic Writing Skills 75/5% 76/4%


Unfortunately the test from 4th grade is not as thorough as the test from 7th grade. These are the acheivment scores for 4th and 7th. I understand the scores better when they are like this. For example, I understand that his reading skills are poor and his processing speed is very slow but once he gets through the material his comprehension is very good. However I noticed on basic writing and basic math his percentile rank is lower, which I think means compared to his peers this is where he ranks.

So I am not sure he has made alot of progress and considering how much of the work he has done on his own withouth help from teachers I would say he has done pretty well.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 6:03:23 PM

Is this your child with a recent FS IQ of 77-78? The achievement tests in basic reading, writing and math are compatible with this IQ range; did you get an explanation of what this IQ range is and what it means? That's something to ask the school, as well as what the future holds. If you are not comfortable with the IQ or if it was from a long time ago, that's something to bring up also.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 6:55:07 PM

If the IQ at 78 is considered by you as valid the acheivment results show that acheivment is what you would expect for his ability. A child with such low basic reading score is going to have trouble keeping up with peers and handling the work in a regular 7th grade classroom. The Math Reasoning of 93 and Reading Comp. of 96 makes me wonder with the IQ is accurate. Your child would be considered over-acheiving in these areas. If the IQ is more than two years old consider asking for it to be redone.

Helen

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 6:58:12 PM

The IQ score was not really explained to us and was done about one year ago. I read in a post that Auditory Processing Disorders may not give an accurate picture of what is really going on or give an accurate IQ score. He was given the IQ (WISC) before he was diagnosed with CAPD.

We are hoping to have all tests redone independently to see where he really is!!

I just wanted other prospectives on the test results.

Thanks
K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 7:00:46 PM

I don't really think the IQ is accurate, I would like to have it redone but as I mentioned in another post an independent evaluator told me that since the laws in my state have changed it is almost 100% guarantee that the school will not pay for it.

thanks
K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 11:51:54 PM

Well, there's a problem with some of the scores -- the Comprehension that went up in the percentile but down in the standard score on the same test...??. I also wonder why 50% has a different SS sometimes.

When speed percentiles go down, that generally means that other kids have gotten faster but that kid's gotten stalled as far as speed goes. This is something I wouldn't be surprised at with a lot of kids.

WHen a kiddo gets subtest scores as low as "2" with the other ones that high, I also want to read the report and see if anxiety played a part -- it's easy for a kiddo to just "lock up" on either that nasty coding or the arithmetic subtest, when under different conditions they could do those particular thought processes better. (Maybe not a lot better, but better... and it tends to bring down that full scale score.)

Basically you look at the skills measured on each test and think about how the kiddo has been doing. This kid looks like s/he's learned how to listen and pay attention and grab hold of long-term information through the years -- important stuff. But needs time -- and I just have to wonder about teh circumstances that gave those low IQ scores. I just haven't met too many genuine "overachievers" in life...


K. wrote:
>
> I will forget about the first set of scores. Here are the
> second scores I am trying to determine if the child has made
> any progress. What if they progressed in one area and not in
> another?? What if they regressed in some areas??
> 2nd Grade 4th
> Grade 7th Grade
> Long Term Retreival 50% and 100, 79% and 112, 99%
> and 117
> Comprehension 31% and 93, 50% and 100,
> 63% and 94
> Visual Processing 40% and 96, 56% and 102,
> 50% and 93
> Fluid Reasoning 32% and 93, 78% and 112,
> 95% and 108
> Auditory Processing 11% and 83, 4% and 73,
> 41% and 90
> Short Term Memory 13% and 83, 18% and 86, 16%
> and 81
> Processing Speed 6% and 77, 22% and 88,
> 2% and 69
>
> The first standard score and percentile rank are 2nd grade,
> the second are 4th grade and the third are 7th grade.
>
> The IQ tests was the following:
>
> Verbal Subtests
> Information 9
> Similarities 8
> Arithmetic 2
> Vocab 6
> Comprehension 8
> Digit Span 3
>
>
> Performance Subtests
> Picture Completion 8
> Coding 2
> Picture Arrangment 5
> Block Design 8
> Object Assembly 9
> Symbol Search 5
>
>
> I have a school meeting soon and would like a better
> understanding of these tests so I can get the right kind of
> help for my child.
> Thanks
> K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2002 11:56:47 PM

He's done pretty well -- but could use some real work on those reading skills. It really looks like this is a kiddo who will be dumped into the "slow learner" low expectations file because those low skill levels match what is probably a bad IQ score. I think there are all kinds of little signs that this is a bright but slow processing kiddo. Unfortunately he probably won't have much opportunity to get the reading skills he should have... or the academics. How knowledgeable are the parents?

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 02, 2002 3:48:31 AM

Do you have health insurance? If so, take your son to a neuropsychologist who can repeat any test you need, and possibly a few the school hasn't covered.

My daughter as a six-year-old was tested with an IQ of 121 and diagnosed as ADHD. When she went manic at 12 (bipolar disorder 1), she was so out of it, psychotic-wise, that her IQ tested at 95 although her math grade level was measured at 11.1 and reading comp at 10.4. We were homeschooling up to that point, but in eighth grade we made the stupid mistake of putting her back in public school and requesting special services.

I'm withdrawing her from school and returning to homeschooling, but when I did a math assessment on her today, she's even forgotten her multiplication tables. She can't think...I swear to God they pickled her brain in that resource room. Apparently they have a one size fits all approach to special education, and since the other children are considered 'slow', I'm guessing that my kiddo was warehoused rather than taught.

From what I know, the IQ testing is very 'iffy' anyway. I would ask for a retest from the district or from an independent evaluator. Ask for it in writing with a small graph showing the disparity of those test scores. I'm really not an expert at all on those tests, but even to this layperson, going from a 96 down to single digits looks weird.

Bonita

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 02, 2002 8:02:49 AM

I think something is missing in the review of this child's scores and progress; how old is this child now, what grade is the child in now(is the child receiving services?), how have the report cards been, what about group standardized testing scores? Is this child ADHD? If repeat testing is requested, remember that if the WISC was done last year, another measure of intelligence will have to be used. Also, a more thorough measure of reading should be done(if not already in the file), like the Gray Oral Reading Test...that looks at fluency, and comprehension in depth.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 02, 2002 9:21:47 AM

The parents are very knowledgable and I try and read and study everything I can to help this child but when he gets to school and he can't get them to do any of his accomodations it almost defeats the purpose.

He is a such a sweet boy, who would do anything for you it sucks, pardon my language, that the school is not helping him.

thanks
K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 02, 2002 9:27:27 AM

The child is in 8th grade, testing was done in 7th grade. This student recieves specialized reading instruction since first grade and for the last three years receives wilson. There has been progress made with the Wilson but since there are no other accomodations made in the reg ed classroom, the classwork is very difficult.

The IEP requires assistance with or adapted content reading material across the curriculm. It also says modify or reduce written work to accomodate rate of written output, scribe when necessary. Homework assignments reduced in volume.

The list goes on and on, the child doesn't get any of that so continues to fall behind. I have a meeting today.

Thanks
K.

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