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What do these scores mean?


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
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Posted Apr 12, 2002 at 2:41:54 PM
Subject: What do these scores mean?

What does it mean when IQ is much lower than Achievement test scores? My son is 9 and in the 2nd grade (he was retained inK) in a regular class is private school with classroom accomodations. He has never received any special services. Every time I asked I was told that he didn't qualify. I have had him evaluated twice, once privately and once at USF. His full scale IQ is 50. The Woodcock Johnson results are (Standard Scores) BroadReading 110, Broad Math 93, Broad Written Language 108, Broad knowledge 78, Skills 99.
I have also not been able to get anyone to commit to a diagnosis. Any insight would be appreciated.

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 20, 2014
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 3:03:33 PM

Do you have the break down of his IQ? IQ scores are normally given 3 scores- Performance score, verbal score, full scale. If there is a big split maybe his full scale score is not a good indicator of his ability. How did his subtest scores look, was there a wide scatter? This information would help us answer the question better. Was his IQ the same both times? Sometimes tests just arent good indicators. My daughter was given the Otis Lenon school ability test to see if she qualified for the gifted program she only scored a 102 and did not qualify. Her teacher said she did not think it was a good indicator since my daughter is a straight A student with no effort. The teacher wants to keep her challenged so provides more stimulating assignments for her. So although she did not qualify for gifted the teacher still provided more stimulating assignments for her because she was showing signs of being bored in class. She often says they move to slow and go over the material too much. How is his attention? What about his motor skills? Any indicatiors that problems in these areas might be interfering. What other tests if any were given? Did not mean to ask so many questions but there is so much involved in the learning proces. the whole picture needs to be looked at.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 4:13:15 PM

Here are all the scores I have
WISC
Full Scale 50 Verbal 60 Performance 48
Verbal comprehension 65 perceptual organization 50 freedom from distractibility 61
Verbal subtests(SS)
information 5 similarities 3 arithmatic 1 vocabulary 5 comprehesion 1 digit span 5
Performance subtests
picture completion 2 coding2 picture arrangement 1 block design 1 object assembly 1
WJ Achievement
broad reading 110 broad math 93 broad written language 108 broad knowledge 78 skills 99
letter-word id 117 passage comprehension 104 calculation 103 applied problems 80 dictation 93 writing samples 115 science 81 social studies 78 humanities 81
WJ cognitive ability
memory for names 89 memory for sentences 85 visual matching 72 incomplete words 79 visual closure 89 picture vocabulary 85 analysis-synthesis 71 broad cognitive 72
The results were similar for both evaluations. his fine motor is poor, gross motor is good, long term memory amazing ( remembers everything that ever happened in his life) short term memory is terrible. He has difficulty staying on task.I think he has attention problems, but both examiners said he didn't.
He also is an identical twin ( twin has similar learning problems but much milder)
Does this help?

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Anonymous
Joined Apr 20, 2014
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 4:15:21 PM

It's fairly common to be told your kid "Doesn't qualify" -- but often it takes doing the testing to figure out whether that's true. Fortunately, you have a right to ask for that testing even if people don't think he'll "qualify," and it's more trouble for them to go through the procedure of turning you down than to go ahead and do it.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 4:18:48 PM

Those scores are awfully, awfully low, the scores of a kiddo who shut down. Was there anything in the report about his attitude or behavior? There probably should have been. Is his memory strictly verbatim, concrete and rote or can he work with that information he's remembering? Sometimes kids can score *somewhat* higher on skills and achievement with a good rote memory. But the IQ scores are fundamentally in conflict with the achievement scores.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 4:22:58 PM

I am not an expert but I agree that is IQ scores are not consistent with his Achievment scores. Can you request an independent evaluation. Something just doesn't seem right?? What tests were used? Was he familar with the person administering the tests? How long did they take to administer??

K.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 4:27:27 PM

Since IQ is a measure of ability it is impossible to have achievement scores so far above ability. The IQ puts your child in the MR range while achievement puts him in the average range. Something is out of wack. Was IQ measured on both assessments and if so what was it the other time?

Helen

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 6:19:09 PM

I first had my son tested by a private psycologist after a idsasterous year in the public school system where they felt he was doing just fine with classroom accommodations. I thought the privates test results were odd . The next school year I sent them to private school, the school agreed that the results were inconsistant with his level of functioning and sent us to USF for retesting. The results were similar. They used WISC and Woodcock Johnson. He continues to learn in a regular classroom with accomodations. The classes are small so he gets a lot of extra attention, but is still able to work on grade level.He gets easily frustrated, has a difficult time following directons, and needs to be shown something many times before he is able to work independantly. He will have to go to a new school next year because the one he is in will be doubling class size to 30+ students next year and can no longer offer the accomodations he needs. I wish I could figure this all out so a can more easily decide on a placement for next year.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 12, 2002 10:21:38 PM

I agree with the others something is not right with these scores. I am just a parent though and can't put my finger on it. Has he ever had any other types of test such as language testing, sensory intergration testing, OT evaluation or the like? What about his hearing and his vision are they ok? Just trying to think why these strange results might of occured. Have you tried posting this question to the teacher board? I know some teachers visit here but maybe some don't. What options are they offering for next year?

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 13, 2002 11:06:16 AM

Okay if USF is close to you,you are very close to me! Boy aren't you lucky?

OKay all kidding aside,I know two very very good private evaluators. Email me and I will give you names and numbers.

Next,boy do I have a school for you!!!
My two go to an ubelievable private school under the McKay. Hmmm,can easily get you one of this vouchers,catch is,the director of this school only take 22 students period,there is one spot left. Hurry!!
The other catch,it is specificly for kids with high ability,low achievment,in other words high IQ,but be willing to bet your IQ's are wrong...
Any,if your interested in all this info ,PLEASE email me....

I think I can help you...

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 13, 2002 11:15:16 AM

WOW! Are you sure the IQ is correct? It is not unusual to have higher achievement than IQ scores, but that much raises the question. However, it does not appear, at a glance, that he needs any special ed. at this time. When was the IQ done? IQ tests done really young have less validity.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 13, 2002 11:16:31 AM

I wonder if there may be any autism indicators? This can manifest in low IQ and good memory skills.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 14, 2002 12:24:29 PM

Thanks for all the input. I think I'm gong to have to have all these tests done again. They were last done 1 1/2 years ago. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will come out different so that I have a better idea of where to place him next year.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 14, 2002 5:36:44 PM

You may not need the achievement testing repeated; ask for another type of IQ test like the Kaufman Assessment and something like the Gray Oral Reading Test-3. If the achievement is commensurate with his school performance, what's in question is his overall cognitive ability(plus any other issues that concern you.).

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 14, 2002 6:18:14 PM

If you can afford it, try to have his tests re-done by an independent, private psychologist rather than one affiliated with a school. Our son had an IQ done at his public school when he was five and his overall IQ was 79. He recently was re-evaluated (he's now 11), but was given the WIAT-II (an achievement test) instead of an IQ test. His scores were all in normal range, and a couple of scores were very high, for all practical purposes, at adult levels, something his IQ would indicate is nearly impossible. We found out that if his IQ was redone, and discovered to be higher, he would actually be eligible for more services from the school system, since apparently the goal is maximizing performance based on the IQ score. As a practical matter, public schools don't have the luxury of spending more money on students that need help, so there is no incentive to retest them. He is doing so well that he was dismissed from his exceptional education program, even though it's obvious that he still needs services. To make a long story a little shorter, we had him tested by an independent psychologist and his IQ scores were 40 points higher than in kindergarten. We could force the school system to accept them, but since he is starting middle school next year anyway, we are going the private route because of class size, and the McKay scholarship is a big help. Trust your instincts! You know your son. He wouldn't be doing as well as he was if his IQ was accurate. Good luck!

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