Is my son dyslexic? Confused about Woodcock Johnson Achievem

Are those all the tests? Is that the only test they used was the Woodcock Johnson?

K.

I could be wrong but I believe you need to look at the entire evaluation to determine what is going on, you can't just look at one tests or part of a test.

How did he score on the other tests?

K.

My sons school is far more confident in his phonemic awareness that I am. They cite things like "he tries to sound out the word" as evidence that all is okay. He has many of the sounds down as in identifying them but cannot actually sound out anything but fairly short words(cant remember syllables???) Spelling is his weakest area which makes me agree with expert #2.

Like anything, memorizing facts and applying them are two different things.

But thats just my experience-cant help you with scoring

WISC III

Information 14
similarities 15
arithmetic 11
vocab. 16
comprehension 9
digit span 15 * supplemental, not incl in full scale IQ
picture completion 9
coding 1
picture arrangement 9
block design 13
object assembly 8
symbol search 6 * supplemental
mazes 8 * suppl.

verbal IQ 118
Perf IQ 87
Full scale 105
Verbal comp. 120
Percp org. 99
freedom from distract. 126
processing speed 67

WIAT

basic reading score 91 / 27%tile
math reasoning 105/ 63
reading comp 94/34
numberical op. 109/73%tile
listening comp 138/99%

Gray oral reading

Rate -- 0 score / below 1.9 grade / 16th percentile
accuracy 10/ 2.8/ 50%
passage 9 / 2.1 / 37%
comprehension 13/ 4.7 grade / 84 percentile

WJIII SS
Oral language 114

Okay Karen,

This is not my primary area of expertise since I am much more familiar with auditory processing problems. I agree that your son's problems are not in the auditory area. But the low score of 1 on the the WISC coding subtest is a strong indicator of a visual perceptual problem and therefore can effect reading achievement and problems (I think you mentioned) in things like fluency.

Has he had a developmental vison evaluation by a developmental optometrist? That looks to me to be the next step. Did either evaluator suggest a visual perceptual problem? Surely the coding score of 1 stood out to someone!

You have a large gap between verbal and performance, and that is why there is a problem labelling LD because the full scale IQ score is brought down by the performance score. I'll have to look at the scores a little more to see if I can see a way he'd qualify, but in actuality he may need therapy that he couldn't get at school anyway.

Janis

Since there is a 30+ point spread between the verbal and performance IQ and he scored a 1 on coding, I see some real potential visual processing or motor skill issues (or very high anxiety level). Yet, because he seemed to "hold-up" better on the math calc and fluency segments (which are also written), one would tend to look more toward the visual processing element.

I need to print this section and open the top section to really compare. So, this is really comment #1 and the one above will be comment #2.

Prelude: We can't really do much because we cannot see this child. I learn more by working with the child and observing than through standardized tests. They just tell me where I may need to look. So, all of this is purely "blind."

First, with this spread between the VIQ and PIQ, I would use the PIQ score to figure discrepancy...however, your school district may not allow that. Without looking at *why* the problem is occuring, let's just first look at the what the data show. However, this child is more than "just an average 100ish."

Reading rate is way *way* slow and accuracy is a little off, too. Error analysis is very important here in understanding *why* but that's not part of a norm-referenced test. Let's assume that visual processing has at least something to do with it because the Symbol Search and Coding are low, low. With Similarities and Block Design in the higher range, your son/dd has high fluid intelligence. Very teachable! Good thinker. Looks like he/she does better spatially on a whole-to-part than part-to-whole (good block design/relatively poor object assembly). (From a teaching standpoint, I would try spending more time in chunking big words than word building from individual letters--after phonemic awareness is in place. JMO) The picture completion is relatively low score could also mean that he has a figure ground issue. We *know* it isn't innate smarts by the BD and Sim scores.

Now, interestingly enough, this child's brain seems to have rewired to strengthen the auditory channel (evidence FD index score). (S)he probably has a wonderful ability to hold stuff in working memory and gets things into memory better that way.

It would have been nice to see Sound Blending subtest on WJIII. However, what they did give indicates that the child has average ability to look at patterns and say the word/pseudoword. However, that isn't transferring to spelling, obviously.

I can tell you what I would do, but since I'm probably not in your state or school district, it may not help much. As a mom, you will likely know if what I mention are problems for him/her.

1. I would do some sound moving with symbols other than letters, like LmB tracking to improve ability to hear and manipulate sounds in spoken language.
2. I would do word building of one syllable words to improve spelling abilities along with synthetic phonics. (Synthetic will make him work whole-to-part and part-to-whole.)
3. I'd be looking really closely at the visual tracking. Is it something more than just slow processing? (What is his reaction time like? Eye-hand coordination is likely slow, too. Not really a sports-guy like basketball or baseball--too fast moving?) As a reading teacher, I'd be working Great Leaps to improve that fluency. I'd investigate what works to help speed up visual tracking. (Sometimes something as simple as using a white index card to cut down on the visual clutter makes a big difference.

Comprehension is very biased culturally, but also may indicate a child who isn't processing socially appropriate situations. NLD? Quite the little professor with that vocabulary score! Still, may not get along well with peers and see correct things to do in social domains.

My blind guess is that he/she is reading so slow that meaning is lost (certainly vocab isn't the issue!) Or, gets hung up in syntax or pragmatics--which would doesn't necessarily show in the Sim score or information. Problems understanding jokes? idioms? Complex sentences?

Is handwriting very sloppy? Slow writer, too, I'll wager. Excellent attention to punctuation detail.

Overly attentive to detail? Need to keep toys/room all lined up? Not necessarily saying so, but sometimes scores like this are present in kids who have those traits.

I'm sure others will jump in here. I'm tired and will probably miss anything else tonight.

quick question: why use the piq score to figure discrepancy, shouldn't we use the higher score to make our case?

Let me tell you more...

The tester found high levels of anxiety which I truly believe depressed his coding score and probably effected his performance overall. He was a basket case at the time of the testing (last spring). We now have him in therapy, and are considering medication if need be.

He has some NLD characteristics: can be inflexible, mild social skills deficits, some motor planning issues. He is predictably not a natural athlete, but holds his own despite looking clumsy. He rode a 2 wheeler right on time. Has friends, but talks excessively. But his room is a mess - his obsessive tendencies are only evident in his speech.

But unlike NLD he's good at math, his reading comprehension is much better than his decoding, and he seems to possess strong abstract thinking skills. SHe gave him an additional test called the cognitive assessment system. Doesn't seem to be well known. In a nutshell he scored over 99%til on a piece called successive processing which requires both verbal and nonverbal abstract processing skills including some verbal/spatial skill. ("choose the picture with the yellow arrow over the blue square") AND off the charts on a figure/ground test where he had to find an image that was imbedded ina nother image. Noone expected that particular skill.

I have been doing great leaps this summer - hard to say what the result is. I think its helped. On those exercises he decodes very accurately (we are at 1st grade level material) but slowly.

We may pull him out this year to do LMB, or find an LMB tutor as a last resort to putting him in an LD school. I may also investigae vision therapy, although I think he's tracking/scanning better now than at the time of this eval. He's about to complete interactive metronome which may help some of the motor stuff.

Your assessment is very good considerinig you've never seen him! Would you say he's a bit of a puzzle?

THANKS!

I have a dear friend and colleague who does private work in that area.

We live in Manhattan. But sometimes think of fleeing nto Ithaca.

We have no shortage of resources where we are - the problem is choosing the right type of resource. We have him with a tutor who is OG certified, but is a psychologist too. What have you done with your son?