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dyslexia? auditory problem? 3rd grade


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
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Posted Nov 16, 2001 at 11:51:32 AM
Subject: dyslexia? auditory problem? 3rd grade

<HTML>My 8 yr old dd doesn't seem to "hear" many blends. I am only beginning to wonder if she is dyslexic. To respond to this dilemma, I just ordered AVKO Sequential Spelling

http://spelling.org/

While beginning a few spelling tests that I viewed on AVKO's website, I was cringing when my dd spelled the following words exactly the same way (sin and skin) (sap and slap) (cap and clap) (cat and chat). She knew I was saying 2 different words, but could not insert the correct letter to make a blend.

After days of repeating the same spelling test, hoping she will learn the spelling patterns, she will spell "cap" correctly, but then write "caap" or "capl" for the word "clap."

Can anyone recommend what to do? She is 8.5 years old. Should I bring her to the public school to have her tested?

She also has trouble thinking of words that rhyme with very simple 3-letter words.</HTML>

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Anonymous
Joined Nov 28, 2014
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Posted:Nov 16, 2001 5:36:23 PM

<HTML>when she is reading? Or only when she is spelling? If she makes the same type of error when she reads (drops a sound, inserts a sound, substitutes a sound) I would drop the spelling and go back to reading instruction using the book "Reading Reflex". This book provides very good strategies for teaching phonological skills.

If this happens only when spelling, it may be a form of dysgraphia. I have to run now, but will think about this....

Mary</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 16, 2001 9:58:40 PM

<HTML>She's a good reader and knows her phonics. This problem only occurs while writing the words. She can read "chin" but she spelled it "hcin". Can read "cub" but spelled it "kcbb." Can read "twins" but spelled it "tins" and the next day spelled it "tyis".</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 16, 2001 10:14:06 PM

<HTML>Sequential Spelling should help, but I would add a few modifications to use techniques from "Reading Reflex". I would suggest that you get RR and have your dd do some of the exercises in there -- specifically the mapping and process spelling exercises. Basically, these are techniques to teach her to say each sound as she writes each sound, reinforcing sound/symbol correspondence and the sequencing of letter combinations in words. Apparently she "gets" this when reading (receptive language skill), but not when writing (expressive language skill, which is more difficult). The RR techniques should help develop these skills, and they are very compatible with SS.

After thinking about it a bit, it seems more likely that she's just weak in these particular skills rather than dysgraphic. I think you will find that SS in combination with RR should be very helpful. Once your dd has practiced the RR techniques, you can just have her apply them to the SS lessons.

Mary</HTML>

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Anonymous
Joined Nov 28, 2014
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Posted:Nov 17, 2001 6:00:58 AM

<HTML>I think you're giving very good advice. It just sounds right to me - you, know, that gut feel! As you suggest, I am going to give more attention to the sound of each group of letters, as she writes the word. I'll try the exercises in RR. It makes sense to assume that it's not dysgraphia - at least just yet. She does enjoy art, drawing, and writing fancy letters. She learned to print at age 3 & 4, and learned cursive at age 5, only because she wanted to. She has always had very nice handwriting. However, it's the spelling that is a problem.

When she was 5 & 6, we glossed over Explode the Code books quickly, just to learn the phonics. She did learn the phonics, and took off with reading, which is what I wanted to do. However, maybe it's time to shake the dust off those books, and have her do the writing exercises, which is really spelling out the words. I hesitate to use Exp-Code because she is terrible at "sounding out the word." I tried that with the word "clap." She spelled it "cap," and she didn't know to insert the "l" until I isolated that "l" sound so much, it would have been obvious to a 3-year-old. It could be that I just havn't spent enough time on consonant blends. I'll give that more time, before I get too quick about suspecting auditory processing problems or dyslexia. Thank you!</HTML>

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Anonymous
Joined Nov 28, 2014
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Posted:Nov 18, 2001 2:12:33 PM
Subject:Agree...

<HTML>... if she is having trouble "sounding out the words," she's probably a real 'whole word' thinker. She can hear and recognize the word and its meaning -- her brain just doesn't hone in on the individual sounds. In my experience this happens more in girls than guys -- especially girls with some really strong verbal skills and intelligences.

GO to http://www.auburn.edu/~murraba/ for the "letterbox lesson" for practice in "sounding out" and "spelling out" words. If you start with words with "continuant" sounds like the "sl" blend you can stretch those sounds out to emphasize them (sort of a cheap, human form of Fast ForWord ;)).

I'll try to link but it probably won't work:
<A HREF="http://www.auburn.edu/~murraba/">"letterbox lesson" </a></HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 18, 2001 2:12:54 PM

<HTML>Nt</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 18, 2001 2:13:46 PM

<HTML>...the /ch/ in chat isn't a blend. It's one sound that's spelled w/ two letters.</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 18, 2001 6:17:52 PM

<HTML>I don't understand. When 2 letters are put together to make one sound (ch, th), doesn't that constitute a blend?


Kathy G.
Sue wrote:
>
>...the /ch/ in chat isn't a blend. It's one sound that's spelled w/ two letters.</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 20, 2001 1:53:45 AM

<HTML>I think it IS a phonemic awareness problem. Missing that second consonant at the beginning of a word is classic for such a problem. Any program that starts at the phonemic awareness stage, which is a stage just PRIOR to the phonics stage, would be helpful. Reading Reflex does that. My favorite program is Lindamood-Bell's LIPS program. Practicing lots of chains with blocks under their program would solve this. I'm tutoring 4 girls right now who all fit your daughter's description in strengths and weaknesses- they're all the same age as she.

Regarding her ability to draw well, beautiful cursive, etc., that actually, alng with what else you've described, could point more to dysgraphia than not. The most dysgraphic student I've ever had was also the most talented artist. Her handwriting was impeccable, the model for the class. The problem is that the individual is DRAWING letters rather than writing them. These skills, drawing vs. writing, come from different areas of the brain.</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 21, 2001 4:23:30 AM

<HTML>Say to yourself the word "slam" Now say it again very very very slowly. Listen and feel how many sounds you hear and how you make them. There are *four* separate and distinct sounds,

SSSSS-LLLLL-AAAAA-MMMMM

"sl" is a BLEND, two separate consonants that work together *but* keep their own distinct sounds.

Now say "thin" very very very slowly a couple of times. How many sounds? Where does your mouth move? Do you form or hear a "t" sound or an "h" sound?

"thin" has only *three* separate sounds. And there is no "t" as in "Top" and no "h" as in "Hot"; there is a NEW, different sound. In English, the pair th stands for a special sound that is neither t nor h nor a combination, but something different. In Greek there is a special letter (theta) for this sound, but in English we have to make do with a special rule: when you see t and h together, DO NOT pronounce t or h, but pronounce the new sound "th"

The common DIGRAPHS in English are:

th as in THumb, THistle (unvoiced) and as in THere, THey (voiced)
ch as in CHair, CHild
sh as in SHoe, SHip
ph = f as in PHone, elePHant
ng (ending) as in swiNG, loNG

Since digraphs are not just the two letter sounds run together, they have to be taught separately. Teaching them as blends would be very confusing.</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 25, 2001 2:40:16 PM

<HTML>It's only an arbitrary decision that the "sh" sound gets two letters. It could just as easily have its own squiggle. It's one sound and it's totally different from the other letter sounds.

Lots of people haven't learned the difference and it doesn't seem to have hurt 'em, but it really can be confusing if a kid's trying to figure out just what he's "blending together" to say "sh" or "ch" or "th." Then there's wh..... but that's pretty much been reduced to the "w" instead of 'hw' sound so students don't have to precisely recite "whether the weather is what you wish, the whales will whistle and wave at the fish..." SIgh :)</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 27, 2001 2:49:56 AM

<HTML>We are on lesson 5 with my 8 yr old dd. She loves the simplicity of the program, and is feeling successful so far. She asked if the same company sells a math program, as she thinks that Singapore Math is difficult. So now, I am trying to think about how to make math a successful experience for her as well. Interesting math experience:

She finds simple word problems extremely difficult, and I wonder if it's more of a language problem. But in real life, she is saving money to buy a $60 toy, and she already has $13. She quickly got a calculator and punched in the numbers (60 - 13 = ) to figure out how much more money she needed. Now, if that was a word problem printed on a page, she would have had great difficulty.</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 27, 2001 12:06:56 PM

<HTML>How is her reading otherwise?

Which level of Singapore is she working in? My dd is 11 and just finishing up 3B (we started in 2A in January). The word problems in Singapore are very incremental, and I'm sure that starting in 2A helped my dd a lot with them. She would have had trouble with the level 3 word problems otherwise.

EPS has a workbook that teaches a step-by-step methodology for solving word problems. I got it because I thought dd would have problems, but then she caught on so well with Singapore we didn't use it. If you can't find it at http://www.epsbooks.com, I can dig through my stuff and give you the ISBN. The EPS website has sample pages you can view.

We are in the lesson #80's of Avko's first book. I am finding that the significant progress in spelling that my dd has made doesn't show up very well on the tests. I was so disappointed in her first test, I decided to do a pre-test for the 2nd one. Sure enough, she did a little better on the post-test, but not much (went from 10/10 to 13/10). However, the improvement in her ability to spell has been phenomenal. I noticed that the mistakes she makes now are less "global". She will get a word wrong, but only one letter or sound (usually a vowel) wrong instead of most of them.

Avko's spelling program is the first one that has worked for us, and it's so painless! We just got the keyboarding program, and that is good too.

Mary</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 27, 2001 12:15:01 PM

<HTML>using color seems to help make it more tolerable. My dd is currently using colorful gel pens to work her problems, and we made fraction manipulatives out of variously colored construction paper (folding and labeling) because she seems to have a problem connecting the concepts with the abstract manipulations.

My dd said this made math a lot more fun, so now I have ordered Dinah Zike's books and videos. I'm not sure exactly how we are going to incorporated 3-D organizers into math, but I'm sure there's a way. In addition to the basic books and videos, I ordered Zike's book on making graphs and charts. If you're interested, I found a lot of information about this approach on the Zikefans list at http://www.groups.yahoo.com. The FAQ includes some links to color photo's of the processes and results on the web.

Mary</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Nov 28, 2001 9:05:36 AM

<HTML>She is 8.5 years old. She completed 2A and 2B last year, and into September. She began 3A in October of this year. I like SM, but I have to work with her, so that she feels successful (like with AVKO). She asked me if AVKO sells a math program, so I decided that she needs to feel successful with math, too!

With AVKO, perhaps practice with these words in their everyday writing would help them be more successful with the evaluation test. I was thinking about HOW to do that!</HTML>

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Anonymous
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Posted:Jan 31, 2002 6:51:05 PM

<HTML>If you ever revisit here ( I looked for your email address) I recommend speech language testing. It does sound like a phonemic (or phonological) awareness problem but you want to make sure that is all it is. If it is something breaking down in auditory processing an SLP with expereince in that area is the best place to start.</HTML>

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