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Behavior: Social Skills, Self Esteem

"504"


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Joined: Nov 03, 2005
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Posted Mar 28, 2003 at 9:08:35 AM
Subject: "504"

Do parents abuse the meaning and intent of "504"?

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Anonymous
Joined Nov 01, 2014
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Posted:Mar 28, 2003 11:06:29 AM

What an interesting question, especially in the Social Skills Forum.

Could you give an example of what you mean?

Barb

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Anonymous
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Posted:Mar 31, 2003 1:52:50 PM

I am a teacher who deals with students who are not necessarily receiving any modifications due to section 504. However once some hear of what can be provided under 504 they seem to ask for it all in the hopes that it will make school life easier for them and particularly for their child. It seems as though they just want to take advantage of the modifications. However there also seems to be a stigma attached if the student is eligible for modifications. Inn two instances its as though the parent(s) wanted the modifications regardless of any stigma, just to have it easier for their child. My question is why?

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Anonymous
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Posted:Mar 31, 2003 3:08:53 PM

Define easier? Are the parents having problems helping with student with the work? Do the students become difficult, when working with the parents? There are so many possible issues with this question. Parents don't always see the stigma or understand it.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Mar 31, 2003 3:53:12 PM

Or they may see the stigma and decide it is the lessor of two evils.

I'm not familiar with the 504 as my children have IEPs. Talk about stigma being in spec ed! But the alteritive was for them to not learn anything, fail school.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Mar 31, 2003 3:55:16 PM

Thanks, Stan. I understand better where you are coming from now and why this is in the social forum.

I can't help here but I hope others answer your question. You may wish to repost in a parents forum.

Barb

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2003 8:39:47 AM

Shel -- thanks for the comments. By easier I mean,the parents utilize any modifications available to the students ( closer seating, more time for tests, any tech. assistance, etc., etc.) which could aid their student in achieving higher academic standing. Yes, they also use it as a subsitute for their own inabvility to aid their child, for whatever reason. The students usually do not respond to most of what their parent(s) do. It seems as thought the parents want all this aid but don't anyone to know about it! I have met a few parents recently who seem to fall in this category

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 01, 2003 4:14:12 PM

Stan -

I can relate on many levels with what you are saying. Both of my sons have IEP's. Once my younger son graduates from speech due to hearing difficulties a 504 plan will by my only alternative.

As a parent we want to try if there is anything that can help, not necessarily fix the situation, but relievate the pressure of it. I hear so many teachers say well that kid is not trying, etc., But, I think, as a parent that don't see the half of it. Especially, when you have parents who are involved like I am. They don't get to see the screaming matches, the slamming doors, the name calling anything that can be used to get out of what you want done for ex. homework, spelling words, etc., oh my favorite read fifteen minutes a night with your dyslexic son. Okay! like that will happen with WW3.

As a paraeducator in the elementary school, I see what you are saying. I find that my students don't get the stigmatism unless their behavior dictates it. Almost that if you find the fine line that doesn't push them over edge emotionally with their peers observing. The peers tend to see them equally "for lack of better word". That they just need extra help.

Best advice, do everything you can -- a seat in the front of the room, extra time in the scheme of things is not a big deal. Hope this helps....

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 02, 2003 8:24:31 AM

Shel Thanks for the input. This subject does not seem to be popular. I tried on various bulletin boards with minimal results. Most students that I have been associated with,do not seem to mind or care that they are "504". It has been the parents who want to hide things. I believe that modifications can be implemented without fanfare and be successful. The schools are not trying to shirk their responsibilities and the parents are usually really concerned about their children. It just seems as though the negatives you hear are because the screaming and yelling attacts the most attention. My original perception was off, the majority of parents involved with a LD child are not trying to take advantage of the system, nor is a stigma generally attached to the student or the parents. Thanks again. Stan.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 07, 2003 2:02:00 PM

I'm sure that some parents do think in these terms, especially the parents of the higher functioning kids. Frankly, I've been thinking about doing it myself when my kid hits high school, especially if I decide to send her to public school at that time, despite the fact that she has been without accommodations up until now, and I haven't disclosed that she has any disabilities to her current (preparatory) school. I know that my own reasons - which are complex - include the unworthy one of getting an edge on the competition, (eg. extra time on the SAT's), and is partly rationalized by the feeling that given how hard she has had to work for the 12 years of her short life, that she deserves the break. I presume that this sort of thinking is what motivates the other parents . I don't know whether or not this is ethical, or even whether I still know what ethical means in this context. It's kind of like the affirmative action thing.

I'm quite torn on the subject of affirmative action. For my own part, as a Southeast Asian, I belong to a minority group which is overrepresented in math and science-based careers. I and my siblings struggled against unofficial quotas designed to keep down the members of our racial group throughout our college and medical school admissions processes, while simultaneously enduring the social stigma of having brown skin in this country. For example, the question which I still frequently hear; "What medical school and residency program did you attend, Doctor?" This question is NEVER asked of my white colleagues, some of whom attended school outside the country. (The inquirers always seem startled when I reply "New York Medical College and Johns Hopkins" Then they inquire into my college and high school, all of which were similarly in the U.S.) I have a young nephew and niece whom I expect will have a similar uphill struggle against the quotas which keep our country from becoming a meritocracy.

On the other hand, my two kids (both adopted from Central America) are Hispanic. They may benefit from affirmative action, assuming it survives the current Supreme Court challenge. Then again, if we live in a country where Asians can adopt Hispanic children with nobody thinking twice about it, do we really NEED affirmative action? And if we are going to do affirmative action, for whom should it be? The (black) director of the middle school department of my elder child's elite preparatory school was apopleptic when I informed him that I intended to send my sixth grader to do a full 180 hour accredited course in Algebra I over this coming summer. If she passed this course, (which we all anticipate) and he then continued to refuse to allow her to enter the advanced math group (which takes Algebra I in seventh grade) this fall, I assured him that he might expect a complaint from me to the Federal Office of Civil Rights. (One of the OCR's current thrusts is discriminatory tracking of Hispanics into low math groups in middle school.) What is REALLY funny about all this, is that since this director took his position two years ago, every single one of the black kids in the middle school has been placed in the advanced math group, and none of the Asian kids have been placed in the advanced math group unless they were there on entry into the middle school. My kid is the only Hispanic in the middle school at this time; a second Hispanic is in the upper school (and was in the middle of the three math tracks when in middle school, which was before the current director's time.) Need I mention that there is not a single child in the entire school - of whatever ethnic group - that cannot currently be described as middle class or higher socioeconomically speaking? Of course the OCR, being a political organization, will not touch this puppy with a ten foot battle lance, but the school does realize that long before the OCR gallops arthritically into the fray, I will have spread the news to all the other parents: the Asian and white parents will scream discrimination, and they will have a real mess on their hands. Wouldn't the relationship between race, sex, math grades, ERB scores, and promotion to the advanced track at this particular school make a terrific seventh grade science fair project? Of course we'd have to survey every single student in the school to get the necessary data, and that would require "informed consent" but hey! I've got child names, parent names, grade levels, addresses, phone numbers, and emails of every child in the school; a masters in epidemiology; and a word processing program which does mailmerge... Would this be an ethical thing to do? Hmmm. Got me. I do know that it would be h&llishly amusing to me personally. As for my kid; she's got game.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 07, 2003 8:08:01 PM

I need help from all of you. Can my daughter qualify for a 504 plan if she is not classified. She was declassified at the end of second grade, at that time she was receiving help from a one-on-one aide because she needed redirection constantly and had trouble focusing, also she helped her socially. But she was found to be doing fine at the end of second grade so -- she was declassified as mentioned.
She has had psych services from school and extra testing time, but I feel she needs more. One thing she needs is o.t. An outside o.t. did an eval. and found she is 2 ages below her grade level and even though I will start with the outside o.t. once a week, she really feels she could use it in the school setting.
I also feel she could use help with organization, directions and break down of her assignments. She did have a checklist this year - but I don't feel it was enough. She is able to do average work and keep up, but it's been a struggle and the first half of the year was bad - now she has finally settled in. It took her a long time to learn the routine.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 08, 2003 12:29:25 PM

Kathy -

I thought you had to have a disability that effected your life for example hearing impaired, visual impaired, etc.,

BUT, I found this interesting article on another site.

Please look into it: http://schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=30&g=1
Hope this helps.

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Anonymous
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Posted:Apr 11, 2003 11:30:32 AM

I actually think that if there is more flexibility in the school in general there would be less need for laws like 504 to protect children who have disabilities. 504 comes from persons with disabilities act. It is around to protect people with a disability.
I think sometimes the teacher does not see the disbality if it is LD or ADD. These disabilities make academics more difficult for the child. Relieving them of some of that burden is just humane. If you had a blind child you wouldn't think twice of providing them with braille or books on tape. The blind child has an obvious disability and an obvious need.

My child has a visual processing problem The school didn't understand why I asked to get him tests that had large print and few questions on the page. It is easier for him to process material presented in this way. It doesn't really give him any advantage. It is just a humane thing to do to help alleviate the burden he carries.

With vision therapy this has become less of an issue and his current teacher presents material to the class this way anyway. It is strange that his regular ed teacher just does this for all and the sped teacher wouldn't do it.

I don't know why this type of thing would need to be broadcast. I think teachers should respect a child's right to privacy and remain discreet. It just is not anyone elses business.

There is a great deal of sensitivity to this type of thing in medicine. A medical professional can not discuss a patient's medical history with anyone unless there is a need to know.

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