Behavior: Social Skills, Self Esteem

Should school ignore these results? Unable to trust!

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Posted Sep 19, 2003 at 2:06:22 PM
Subject: Should school ignore these results? Unable to trust!

To cut a very long story very short. I spent 3 years of "hell" trying to get the school to listen to me, in that as a mother I might have credible input where my son is concerned. Always listened to but never taken seriously, as son spiralled further and further downhill. It was just dreadful. Finally school admitted defeat and ordered a Psycho-Ed Report. Only this time the data backed ME up and what I had spent 3 years trying to tell them.

Information - 11
Similarities - 9
Arithmetic - 17
Vocabulary - 10
Comprehension - 8
Digit Span -13

Picture Completion - 8
Coding - 6
Picture Arrangement -11
Block Design - 12
Object Assembly - 8

VIQ 106 - VC 98 - PIQ- 94 PO- 99 FSIQ - 100 FID - 129

VMI - AE = 9.6

Woodcock Johnson Tests of Achievment III

Letter Word ID - AE 12-8//%83//ss114
Passage Comp. - AE 9-4//%48//ss99
Broad Reading - AE 10-10//%73//ss109
Math Calc. - AE 13-7//%98//ss130
Math Reas. - AE 13-0//%96//ss126
Broad Math - AE 12-8//%97//ss129
Spelling - AE 11-10//%72//ss109
Writing Samp. - AE 9-10//%55//ss102
Broad Writ.Lan - AE 9-8//%54//ss101

Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scales Interview Edition
(only socialization domain assessed and only this part due to my concerns regarding this area)

Socialization SS76 -- AE 6-1
(only SS score given)
Interpersonal Relationships AE 3-8
Play & Leisure Time AE 8-7
Coping Skills AE 7-1

Comments included: Does not seem to be able to label happiness, sadness, fear and anger in himself; does not have a preferred friend nor does he have a group of friends; can play complicated board games, name favoritie tv show and day and time and channel, regularly watches tv for particular area of interest (weather); can keep secrets; exhibits app. table manners.

BASC Rating Scales


Clinically Significant: Hyperactivity, Attention Problems, Adaptability////At Risk: Aggression, Anxiety, Withdrawal, Social Skills, Leadership


Clin. Sig: Somatization, Withdrawal///At Risk: Adaptability, Social skills, Leadership, Study skills

The Expressive One-Word Vocab Test- Revised

Standard Score = 110
Perc. Rank = 75

The Peabody Picture Vocb Test - 3rd Ed (PPVT-III)

Standard Score = 92
Percentile = 30

Test of Auditory Reasoning and Processing Skills (TARPS)

Standard Score = 112
Perc. Rank = 78

Test of Problem Solving- Elemen. Rev. (TOPS-R)

Standard Score = 64
Perc. Rank = 3

(Scores below expectancy)

The Word Test- Elementary

Associations - SS85 PR15 (percentile rank)
Synonyms - SS87 PR22
Sem. Absurds - SS92 PR30
Antonyms - SS92 PR31
Definitions below SS55 PR1
Mult. Def. - ss77 PR8


Christian qualified for speech and language services

Was FINALLY admitted into the gifted Math Program
(always denied before due to dissappointing results in the Cognitive Abilities Test - consideration never given to scoring at or above the 97th percentile in all other mandated tests)

So if these numbers and scores mean anything to anyone, please help me out here. I feel that the school is partly to blame for his social inadequecies for had they have listed to me 3 years ago, I could have told them what the problem was without the need for all these tests. He was denied any access to help him with his social issues. I was informed because right now it isn't interfereing with his ability to learn. However as many notes sent home, he constantly affected other children's "right to learn"

The gifted math program only works one grade level above his usual, and quite honestly it's only one step up from boredom.

ALSO, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE, PLEASE TELL ME WANT THE Freedom from Distratibility score of 129 means and in words that I might understand. You see I think it is quite high, does that mean high good or high bad//It is puzzling because I am constantly being told how distratible he is.

I really want his social issues addressed, but based on these results, do you think I have good cause to question there decision???? I need advice and fast!!!!!!!

Thank you for any, any help/advice!


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Posted:Sep 19, 2003 2:09:12 PM

Oops sorry, my son was 9 years old and finishing 3rd grade when he was tested. (thought you might need that) :) :)

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Posted:Sep 21, 2003 11:28:26 AM

I can't address all your questions, but have done "3 years of hell" also before getting the school to test. I also work as a counselor in a public elememtary school. Our child study team would probably say the same thing-- the social issues do not appear to be interfering with his learning, so you would need to seek counseling and/or a medical (for adhd, etc.) eval. on your own. Do his issues cause problems outside of school- with family, playmates, etc.? It is good that he qualified for speech/language services and I would talk with them about addressing some of the social issues through those services, for example understanding the vocabulary of emotions and social interactions. Also see if there is a school counselor, social worker, or psychologist who works with children in small groups on social skills. If classroom behavior is a problem, a functional behavior assessment should be done before putting in place a behavior plan to help him change unacceptable behavior.

The freedom from distractibilty factor is misleading. Although it has been used as an indicator of attention deficit, it is now recognized that it is more a measure of executive function, in particular working memory. It is determined from the arithmetic and digit span subtests, where information is presented orally and the child has to rember it and repeat it back. Digit span presents a series of numbers and he has to repeat them either forwards or backwards. Arithmetic presents a problem that he must remember and solve in his head, then answer orally. Many kids with adhd do have difficulty with executive functions-- the planning, starting, stopping, shifting, thinking inside your head before speaking or acting sort of things. Your child scored extremely high, which is good.
IF you can possibly afford it, I would seek help from outside the school.

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Posted:Sep 24, 2003 1:34:05 AM

How do you ideally want his social issues addressed? Schools are far more likely to do what you want when you're specific in what you want. Don't assume that schools have neat little curative packages tucked away somewhere that they can be forced to bring out and use. Often schools are stabbing in their own dark as to how to help a child. Schools can think in a very concrete way and aren't good at coming up with creative solutions to problems.

Do you want your son placed in a special classroom? Do you want him to see a play therapist? Does the guidance counselor have any kind of a 'play group' for children who need help with their social issues? My advice would be - figure out what you ideally want and also what you'll settle for and then tell the school.

And that a child may test well on distractibility on a test can mean little. Some children can focus very well in a testing situation but still be easily distractible in a classroom. If you want to do your own kind of test, some day sit quietly in the back of your son's class and watchfully wait. The class activity will pick up around you and you can see what you see.

Good luck.

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Posted:Sep 28, 2003 9:50:54 AM

Thank you for responding. Sara, I realize that you might have got lost in my long posting. Perhaps you didn't catch the 3 years of "hell". For instance, I began asking.... begging, to take a close look at my son, the dots were not connecting if you know what I mean. I was well aware of what was causing some of his behavior problems.... I begged, pleaded for each teacher to provide more challenging Math. For all my school visits, conferences, I came to find out the golden rule "Parents Should Be Seen But Not Heard". Coz basically that's how I feel. After the tests were done, and my "gut" feelings were confirmed with their expensive diagnostic tests, did anyone say "Oh sorry, we should have listened to you!"

You got it! So as wonderful as having a plan sounds, I gave up that idea a long time ago. No, the only way I can get anything done is with a louder voice than my own and that seems to be "The Law". I am confused on how these determinations are made. For instance, based on his academic abilities it does not appear that anything is affecting his ability to learn. So why does he qualify in speech and language because of low scores, but after scoring exceedingly low in some social areas, does not qualify for any support in that area. Rover, when you say get outside help, to what aspect are you referring to?

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Posted:Sep 28, 2003 11:44:57 AM

I was referring to seeking outside help with the social arena. The low scores on speech/language testing would suggest that he will have difficulty as the curriculum becomes more difficult-- 4th grade is often a "watershed" point where these weaknesses show up- they have to "read to learn" vs. "learning to read" in the lower grades. I agree with Sara that you and the IEP team need to decide how you want to address the social skills. In our district, a kid who was unable to function in the regular classroom due to "inability to build and maintain personal relationships" (not an exact quote) might be placed in a self-contained classroom for students with emotional disturbances. Some kids do great in such a setting with its lower ratio of adults to students and IEP goals related to social functioning. Others get grouped with kids who are a lot worse off in their social skills and have no role models for appropriate behavior. Perhaps he could be in a small group setting for part of the day and in regular ed. for math and specials like music, art, and P.E. Sit down with the team and decide how best to address the issues- don't let them forget that it is the child's needs that dictate services, not which programs the school has available.

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Posted:Sep 28, 2003 11:48:09 AM

Don't forget about the "Functional Behavior Assessment". The laws require this. a behavior improvement plan should be implemented for a period of time (probably 4-6 weeks at least) before deciding that he needs a more restrictive placement than a regular classroom.

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Posted:Oct 23, 2003 9:00:55 AM

I thought you might be interested in learning more about Relationship Development Intervention, a program designed by Dr. Steve Gutstein in Houston, TX which teaches competence in relationships. It was originally designed for children on the Autism spectrum, and has been effective with kids with ADHD and other learning disorders which affect social relatedness. His website is www.connectionscenter.com and he does have a book of suggested activities which teach these skills. Good luck!

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