??about IEP meeting

Sorry I didn’t quite finish. I asked about extra math for him. He really could handle a 4th or 5th grade level class in math, even though he is only about a 1 grade 3 month level with reading. I don’t want to hold back his progress in his strengths since he takes great pride in his abilities. I was told we need to close the “gap”. Basically as long as he knows what the rest of the class is doing he should be working on his reading. Is this a good idea, he really loves math and is the one thing he hates to miss. I’d hate to say well your to far ahead of everybody else so you don’t get to do that.

Another point that I filed away for future reference is next year in 3rd he will only be required to take 1 of the SOL tests, “for practice”. It seems that is away to get around having his scores count in the totals for the school. A fight for another day.

okay Stacy first off,remember the old adage about a women’s intuition? Well friend,your right,this is bull.

you are an equal participent in the IEP team. This means if you want “will spit on floor twice a day” then they either put it in the IEP or provide you with a written reason why they refuse.If they are saying they can’t because they don’t know what will happen next year then,you write for the remainder of this year and remeet for next year. If they refuse make SURE they provide you with a written reason of refusal.
IDEA states they must be able to provide an array of educational programs and they MUST provide him with one that meets his individual needs. This means they must provide for his strengths too.
As you can see,sometimes the school needs to be aware that Mom knows what’s up too.

Stacy, I have to bite my tongue here.

OK, we do not write methodology or programs into IEPs. I write goals that describe what the child will be able to perform in various areas. These goals are measurable and I can collect data and documentation. We are not required to write programs and techniques into IEPs. I suppose you COULD. However, I don’t think you are going to get special education staff to do that.

Why am I such a “poop” on this issue? Well, the IEP is a legal document. I am a trained teacher (though I am always learning). The IEPs have become more and more specific and the greater the specificity, the less room I have on a daily and weekly basis to make good educational judgements about what I am doing with my students. While you may say to me, “when you wish to change something, just call an IEP meeting” I have to respond that I really do need to limit the number of IEP meetings I have. They take place before and after school, and I attend other meetings and committees. I also need to reserve before and after school time to do my teacher work, plan lesson materials, talk to colleagues about our students’ programs, etc. I like IEP meetings, but they are unwielding and I simply cannot look upon an IEP as the answer to all my prayers. They require the assemblage of a team of very busy people all of whom have the concerns of about 20-30 other kids at heart. The administrator who is required to attend (and does attend) administers a school of over 800 kiddoes alone and her time is spread very thin). I would prefer to make the periodic phone call to discuss little issues that arise.

So, the program your child is being offered looks very sound. I would be happy in your shoes. I cannot comment on the math, I do not know the full story and so forth. I think 2 hours per day of Wilson is awesome. Nobody in my school gets anywhere near that, I am stretched across 7 grade levels with very little assistance.

Now, about testing. LD does not go away, if there really truly is an LD present. (I have taught kiddoes who came from other schools who really were not LD, though placed under that handicap). I do indeed work daily diligently with my students who are genuinely LD (or dyslexic if you prefer). They make great progress, and I get really excited, but when the test data come in, they are still usually LD. They usually don’t make as much gain on standardized testing as their day to day performance causes me to believe they will make. Certainly, in some cases I don’t know that I can actually do anymore to make things improve faster than I am already doing with some.

Frankly, many truly dyslexic students may never perform well on standardized tests. My state is permitting more accomddating this year and I will be exploring how this may help this population to test better, however I am dreading the nightmare I am apt to face coordinating testing with a variety of modifications for grades 2-6 in several subtest areas. I don’t see how I am going to administer this in my resource room to 20-some students who have a variety of modifications in my tiny classroom over the two week testing window. The sheer number of different tests alone is intimidating me.

As usual, I am a windbag here. I think you need to take things one step at a time. If the present school has a good program, I think you need to wait and see what the new school will have. LIke I said, it looks like you are getting incredibly strong services. I appreciate your concerns, but you can only take things one step at a time.

I would have to state that I can see their point on the math, but the child does need the opportunity to shine and to feel good about himself.

I had a funny experience recently. We placed a very, very dyslexic first grader in the resource program. He has a strong nonverbal IQ and is good in math (he takes his math class).

He is receiving 1:1 multi-sensory instruction for 45 minutes per day in the resource room. He promptly shut down in his general ed. classroom! At this stage, we really don’t know why.

Thanks for the replies. I am still so new to this I just want to make sure all bases are being correctly covered. Even after alot of reading I don’t feel overly confident that I understand all the details of effectively advocating and using the legal side to my best advantage without alienating anyone. I do feel very confident with the program being offered at this time, and very fortunate to have a good team. I am just very concerned for next year.

Anitya, I value your input, you seem like an awesome teacher. I definately do not want to make the teachers job any harder, and try to be the best partner I can be in helping my children’s education along.

Hi Stacy,
I came across this wonderful book calledThe Complete IEP Guide How to advocate for your special Ed Child By Lawrence M. Spiegel.

You don’t have to sign his IEP if you don’t agree with it, in that case the schol is obligated to continnue his services just as they have been as long as it is written in his IEP.
If the Wilson system isn’t in his IEP, now then you do need to make sure it is in there for next year.You have to use the words the Wilson system is working for him, it is appropriate for my son. My son needs to know ahead of time to transistion to teacher who his teacher will be. that needs to be in his IEP. they need to meet his needs and it is their problem if they have to work on deciding what special education teacher is train in the Wilson program and who needs to be where don’t let them make it yours.
Willow

First - inclusion is not resource so where is he receiving the direct instruction for the reading program? Inclusion is a general education class with sped students in the class with a sped staff member to work in the class. Resource class is only for students with IEPs and it is illegal to have general education students in these classes. To your question…. to specify a particular program of instruction is not typical on an IEP. If a child moves from a district or state, that program might not be available. There are many wonderful methods to teach reading, yours is just one. With that said, the IEP should have a goal for reading specifying the weakness listed on the Psy. eval. (accuracy, comprehension etc.). The type of program is not typically listed but the needs of the child and the steps they will take to reach those goals is listed in the objectives. Your child’s area of defecit is what should be addressed. There may be a better method of instruction then what you are going to experience. Read, Read, Read is the only way to improve reading - whatever is used is probably going to meet his needs. If a multi-sensory approach is recommended then that should be a part of the goal/objectives. The specific program should not be listed.

So why not have him go to another class for math? I work with gifted/ld kids all the time and both needs need to be met. The math wouldn’t come out of the reading time it would be instead of his regular math. You are probably right about the testing. Because of this ridiculous “No Child Left Behind” legislation, schools are going to have to provide documentation of improvement. They’d like nothing more then to exclude the sped kids because this really distorts their reports. I just had an arguement with an administrator this week about this topic. If you want to put some energies into something that is going to really damage sped kids - spend it on letting your Congressional representatives know how ridiculous this legislation is and how kids with special needs are being ignored. I’ve been around so long that this will come and go too but unfortunately it will be another stupid thing time will be wasted on instead of kids!

kudos to you - my post notes the same position. Don’t you think the increased accomodations is to make the “no child left behind” legislation work better for sped kids? I always cringe when legislators/presidents think they can solve problems by making laws and then threaten to take more money away if you don’t meet the standards. I wish we could do the same thing to them. When all Drs. are to cure their patients or be sued and Lawyers win all cases or be disbared - then you can try and hold the underfunded educational system to the same standards. Your post only goes to support how ridiculous the system is. Your going to spend all kinds of time testing when teaching is what the kids need.

Please read further in your book. Not all districts do the same thing and that doesn’t mean they are not valuable. Multi-sensory appears to be the need for this child - so that should be listed in the IEP. If a child learns better at 8pm, would you put that in an IEP? Additionally, the signature of the IEP document is only to indicate attendance, the document that should be signed before services are to be provided is an enrollment form. That is a separate document from the IEP. If a parent refuses to sign the enrollment form then the school is not legal to provide any sped services. That means Wilson or anything else. Our IEP form clearly states that signing it only indicates you have attended the meeting.

As a professional in the system, we are asked not to put specific programs or equipment in the IEP. However, we document programs or equipment used in our working folders. New teachers/professionals receive or have access to previous working folders and usually implement or provide the program or equipment that was used. Especially if there is documentation that it has been effective. This is professional documentation, I’ll stop at that. If the teacher or professional is not keeping records of equipment , teaching methods, and progress made, that would raise a big red flag in my eyes.

Doctors are not expected to cure all patients but they are expected to follow scientifcally proven methods.

They will get sued if they don’t.

Do schools get sued if they don’t follow scientifically proven methods? I think if the did we would get rid of whole language once and for all.

I realize I am being difficult here. Methodology is not something that must be part of the goal. The goal must state in very specific terms what will be achieved, when, and how it will be measured. The IEP itself must also address where the services will be delivered.

Goals and objectives are about measureable behaviors, not programs. If I want to teach a child to read I assess exactly where the child is functioning right now. Then I determine exactly what I need to teach that child and how I will measure the results of the teaching. So, for a child on first grade level I need to teach the child to use phonics skills, so I look at where the child is and write reasonable, achievable goals. If the child knows virtually all letter sounds but cannot segment and blend, then I start here and write goals to learn to segment and blend starting with simple words and syllables like CVC, and gradually increasing the complexity. I happen to use the scope and sequence from Project Read, so I do consult this when writing my goals and objectives, but I do not write the name of the program into the goal. I extend and expand this program, tweaking here and there.

I know the child needs to read some sight words, so I rely on a frequency word list and estimate about how many sight words the child will need to learn over the next year to read the decodable materials I will use in practice, words like: the, said, have, there, etc. will all be taught and so I might write a goal that the child will learn to read a certain number of sight words that I will assess via a word recognition test.

Any mention of programs, per se, and the law does not state this, might go in modifications and accomodations.

You may ask for a specific program, but the law does not specify that we write programs by name into IEPs. The law actually has supported the omission of this data when parents have tried to sue over this issue. As I stated above in an earlier post, when the issue is LACK of PROGRESS, then hearing officers and judges have cracked down and demanded school districts to pay for certain specific things.

There is nothing in the law that mandates the teacher to write any program into the IEP, esp. in a case like this where the child is being initially placed and is being offered something that really looks good. IEPs are mostly about educational outcomes, not boxing teachers into narrowly prescribed parameters that reduce them to technicians.

This is a button of mine, I know, but it bugs me when parents tell other parents the teacher has to do this when the teacher does NOT have to do this. I will add that if a parent of a child were were placing came in for the first time and started telling me he or she wanted this or that program written into the IEP, I would stand firm, the answer is “no.” I will tell you what I will teach, even how I like to teach it. I will show you some of the things I like to use. I will not sign on to use any program for the year because I will use resources from several sources, inlcuding some I create myself. If your child does not make progress in a year (and he will make progress), then you might have a legitimate beef with me and we can go into that at that time.

I know this makes some parents nervous, but is there any gain to being a difficult parent with a school and a teacher that is actually offering you something that looks and feels good? Remember, this teacher works with a number of other students and parents, don’t go in like a lion with someone who starts out with mostly what you are hoping for unless you want to create a contentious relationship from the get-go when it may never be necessary.

Yes, IEP’s should contain specific goals and objects with measurable outcomes. Not be program driven or program specific. I however, think that if a specific program is successful with a child, this should be documented somewhere- working folder and shared with others. Why reinvent the wheel or waste time on trying a different program that may or maynot be successful. I am a believer in trying new/different things but not at the expense of the child especially if the child has been successful and likes the existing program, especially if the program can be encorporated into the existing system. If the program or techniques becomes ineffective, by all means look for something else.
My bone is that I do not find that progress is being measured in an objective way and reported to parents in a meaningful way. At least in daughters case, how do I know the specific learning strategy at school was helpful or was if the tutoring I gave her at home or just maturation?

If you have too many things going on at once, you may never know, regardless of what program was used at school.

I do not believe in “programs.” I realize some people do and that many parents take comfort in this program or that program. Good teaching means you try to match up teaching techniques and pacing with the learner. “Programs” do not do this for you. A child may need slower pacing than a program offers, another child may go faster. I may take a program similar to Wilson and beef up the multi-sensory activities, I may add some effective techniques and activities.

I know what I have done and I will often share this with parents. I can also share it with a receiving resource teacher if and when a child moves. But, I really don’t like to be locked in and locked down. I cannot make professional judgements if I am too circumscribed by one program. Finally, we don’t always know at the outset what will work, so why not emphasize the outcomes on the IEP, this is what counts. If the outcomes are not happening, then you need to revisit and reconsider methodology.

I agree with you on that point, The testing is to see how well the school is teaching, I t doesn’t benifit the kids, It takes teaching time away.

Stacy has to sign the enrollment form, What she doesn’t have to sign is the final typed version of the IEP where it states agree or disagree and then Samantha, Stacy will check off the box if she agrees or doesn’t agree and why and if she wants mediation or due process, hopefully she will work it out with the school district.
Yes you can place what is need for the Child in the IEP it needs to be in certain area’s I know teachers don’t like it because it means more work for them but dedicated ones will go the distance for their Children

You might be a good teacher, but there are teachers who are not and the parents. don’t want to take a gamble of a year on there child school when a program works.

If a teacher is not teaching a child but the aide is doing all the teaching and lesson plan Can a Parent have written in the IEP Accomodations they need to have a certin number specified by a certified special ed teacher?

I wouldn’t do that, either, but I do the lesson plans and supervise my aide. I am afterall, responsible for my students and I take that seriously.

Willow,

I have to agree with you that my biggest fear is if I sit back and give it a wait and see approach, hope for the best, my son may have to pay the price of losing another year of the proper instruction. I don’t care what program the teacher uses as long as it is research based mulit-sensory type reading program. Just would like to have some reassurances that the new teacher next year has to continue on with what they start this year.

Where is the box located that you agree or disagree? I have always been very confused by this. My school seems to be like Samantha’s - they only ask for signature for attendance. I have NEVER agreed to our IEP -but I have never been asked to sign it or that they care if I agree or disagree.

It just gets written and that’s it. So where do you ‘sign’ it? So I can ask about that at my next meeting?

Samantha is actually correct,there is no signature for disagreeing. Your signature means only that you attended.Which is also the very same for the other signatures. They must have your signature for the educational placement. BUT it is a very good idea by your signature that you write in anywhere that you disagree with the IEP.The best way to make sure they do not implement the IEP you disagree with is,to not end the meeting. Request that the meeting continue on. They must make sure you understand, so if you disagree with what they are saying you, keep asking them to explain it. Does this make sense? For example,they don’t want to provide a multisensory reading program,your eval report reccomends this,and they are saying even though we are giving this this year they can’t garantee to give it next year,you say,”I don’t understand? If your giving it this year,the eval states he should be taught in this manner, the IEP section of IDEA states that you must provide him with an individual program that fits his needs,why don’t you have to?” They might say,” well I don’t like to be closed in,I am the teacher,I do it my way”. Then you could say,” I still don’t understand?” This is an IEP team,we are a team correct?” “aren’t I a part of this team?” The teacher might say,” well,yes,you are,but I teach the way I want ,I want to use a multitude of things”. And you might say,” well I can understand that you are the teacher,I can also understand that I am the parent” ” as long as it states a multisensory approach,I would be agreeable to this,what about you? I am concerned not about you,but about the teacher I might have next year who might not have the experience like you do” Keep going in this way,eventually if no ageeable compromise can result then make sure you request a refusal in wiriting. If it is severe enough of a situation you can then request a due process hearing or mediation and invoke a stay put ,which means they would have to use the old iep,until a third party can get involved. Hope this all made sense. To everyone:-)