Advice needed on FastForWord

I know you are anxious to get started on helping your son. My son is a morning guy too, and we did StepForward at home with no problem. But, we did both FastForward and StepForward during the summer. We’re doing PACE right now. We started in the summer and are finishing up during school.

Simplifying the logistics can help. My concern for your schedule would be that your child will not beneift from the programs as much as he COULD if his brain is having to work so hard in so many directions. As much as I am pleased with PACE, I know it would have been much better for my son to do the whole program during the summer. At least, we were able to get the 1st 6 weeks complete for school.

My son made some good improvements with all these programs. But, in our case, the BEST help I can give my son during the school year is academic tutoring. It doesn’t “fix” the problem. But the problems don’t get “fixed” over night anyway. Trying to do too many therapies at once will create more stress for everyone. I’m right there with you. I’d like to do EVERYTHING at once sometimes. But, I’d suggest you pick 1 thing at a time. Finish it… then move on to the next. You might find, after you complete FastForward that Vision Therapy is not as critical. I’d also choose to complete PACE before doing StepForward. And then… you may not even need to do StepForward. I would suggest waiting to do PACE until next summer though, unless you are planning to become certified as a trainer yourself. Then, you can somewhat modify the schedule of the program so that it works with everyone’s schedule. But, PACE is more intense that FastForward by far!

Now my son LOVES computers. So FastForward was not so stressful at all for him.. Just an idea…. Start FastForward after Thanksgiving and continue it through the Christmas holiday. It is easy to do at home, I think. Just make sure your computer is in a quiet part of the house. I’d do it ALL after school if you can. See if you can get arrange for NO Homework during this time. You can break it up with some time in the morning. However, I do think there are benefits for doing the lessons all in one sitting.

It won’t hurt your son to wait until November to start. In the meantime, you could buy Earobics which is an relatively inexpensive program to play at home. He could just play Earobics when he has extra time. If vision problems are a significant concern, you might want to do this first. It might help him when reading off the screen with FastForward. I know some vision therapy is a once/week thing for months. But, maybe there is a more concentrated program that just last a couple of weeks that can help him, so that it doesn’t overlap with other things. Or start vision therapy now, and bakc-off during the 8 weeks of FastForward.

We’ve never done vision therapy. But, PACE has some exercises which focus on visual processing. If I had to do it all over again… I would have wanted to get myself certified to teach PACE to my son. I still would NOT do the full-blown PACE program until the summer, but I would have learned many techniques that I could have incorporated to help my son with his schoolwork much earlier. I think it helps to give some time between programs to let the benefits soak in. Also, if you do things simulataneously, it is hard to tell “which” things are working. This is especially true, if you are trying any kinds of mediciation for attention. You want to be able to distinguish which techniques are working, so that you will know where to focus your efforts and money in the future.

Also, just a buyer beware. I know that all the professionals who see your child sincerely want to help him. But, each one has their own bias. They see your child and interpret their symptoms through the world of their OWN experience and expertise. One problem is that many Speech Pathologists don’t have much experience with “normal” kids. It is easy to to get wrapped up in the test scores and concerns and recommendation of well-meaning, but not necessarily objective professionals. I’ve gotten myself in a panic uncessarily by listening to young, worried special ed. teachers or therapists.

If you haven’t read the book, Late-Talking Children by Thomas Sowell, I would suggest it. I still get franctic sometimes thinking…”times a wasting!” I’ve got to get my son up to speed RIGHT NOW or he’ll never be ready for 2nd grade, or 3rd grade, or 4th grade. But, my son’s and my family’s overall well-being suffers when I try to overdo it. It is not healthy for anyone in the family for our lives to revolve around our oldest child’s disabilities. I have 2 other little children and a husband who feels neglected much of the time.

And in fact, I think my son is doing great in spite of all the moderate and severe disabilities he has been disagnosed with over the years. He’s making mostly As and Bs. He knows he is a smart kid. He is not a social butterfly or conversationalist, but he has 2 good friends.

I tell people that of all the many many interventions and therapies we have done for our son… 2 things have made the greatest impact. 1) TIME - just his growing up and maturing. 2) BELIEVING OUR CHILD COULD SUCCEED.

I hear other parents who are ready to assume their child can NEVER make it into college, and their child is only in the 3rd grade struggling with dsylexia. Gee! That’s crazy. So what, they might not make it in to Harvard. Although Thomas Sowell’s son graduated with honors from MIT, and his son didn’t speak until the age of 7. But, you have to BELIEVE your child can overcome these challenges. Just tackle one at a time. Persistence pays off. Overload does not.

Lastly, I’ve found a lot of comfort from my faith in God. I believe the Lord is watching over my son and will lead me in the right directions to help him, where help is needed. I appreciate more and more how much my son’s struggles have made him a hard-worker and a thoughtful caring person. Those are important qualities, not to be underestimated. When I start to panic or worry, it is usually because I am not spending enough time in prayer and listening to the Lord’s words gently guiding me.

Good Luck with all your decisions about therapies. There are hard decisions to make. It sounds like you are thinking through a lot of creative solutions and considering all the right factors. I think the programs you are considering are quality programs that have helped many children. All you can do is try. If something doesn’t work out, just rework the solution and move on.

Take Care,

Rosie

It looks like too much to me, especially combining vision therapy with FFW.

VT can be very tiring for the eyes, so you could not expect your son to follow up a session of VT with 110 minutes of FFW. Also, no child could be expected to do 110 minutes straight of FFW. It absolutely has to be broken up, because it is hard work and often deadly boring as well (especially after the first few weeks, when it gets harder and the novelty has worn off). Although it’s true that the number of minutes spent on FFW decreases after mastery is achieved in some of the programs, it typically takes at least 4 weeks to reach that point — for a child who does not have severe auditory processing deficits. A child with moderate deficits could take 8 weeks to reach mastery in one of the programs and, because the 7 games are rotated, it isn’t until mastery has been reached in 3 of the games that the training time is reduced every day of the week.

How long is the VT supposed to take — in terms of sessions per week, exercises to be done at home (if any), and amount of time expected to achieve remediation?

It has been my experience that it is best to focus on one therapy at a time and to do that therapy well. Usually the child also needs a rest in-between therapies. Remediation (and, actually, all learning) is most efficiently accomplished when the child is rested, not stressed, and able to concentrate fully.

FFW is an extremely strenuous program, especially for a child with serious auditory processing deficits. At the very least, I would wait until vision therapy is well underway and you have a good handle on progress in that area, how fatigued his eyes are after sessions, how much time it takes, etc., before starting FFW. Once you start FFW, you want to be very meticulous about following through with it, and that gets harder and harder as the weeks go by. Also, because it is so strenuous, you need to factor in plenty of “down” time between games. The reward system helps, but there’s a lot more that FFW may require, including appropriate cheer-leading, supervision, and hand-holding on your part. It can also take significantly longer than the typical 7 weeks to get through the program.

Mary

My son did FFW the summer after first grade. Actually he began in May and continued through the first few weeks of school. We didn’t drop any “games” until he had done it 6 weeks. It took us a full four months to get to 90% plus master level. It was grueling. We could have never done what you are proposing.

We did start vision therapy with him in July. I think we had dropped one game by then. He only had 10-15 minutes of HW a day plus visits twice a week for 1/2 hour. Since it was summer, that was doable.

Now we did no academics that summer. FFW was enough.

I am not very patient either (in the past year and a half we have done FFW, vision therpy, neuronet therapy (still doing), PACE (still doing) and a Read America PG intensive) but what you are proposing seems almost impossible to me. I do know one child who did FFW almost straight through—with a break to run around the house. My son would do one session and then ride his bike. I kept him home from school until 10 am from mid May through the end of school and we would typically get three sessions done.

I was the provider for my son. It isn’t very difficult and we saved a substantial sun of money. I personally would be reluctant to pay for any sort of help from anyone five hours away, except maybe some consults. I do know some people who have paid for others to do FFW with their child. The slt would have charged us $2000 and we would have still had to sit with our son. In my mind that would have been a waste of money.

You have to understand that the more your child need FFW, the harder it will be for them. I know someone whose child flew through it, but they saw no gains from doing it.

Beth

My CAPD daughter did the $4,000 FF program in summer 2000. It was hell! It was a total waste of money and time for us. However, we were advised by the clinic that administered the program, that she was to drop everything else during the entire six weeks (I think it was 6 weeks). They made it quite clear that in order for the program to be successful, it would be necessary to stop all other forms of remediation, language therapy…….EVERYTHING. She was there 9 a.m. to 12. They recommended that we expect nothing else from this child for the rest day. And, then, there was the incentive program that was strongly suggested (financed by the parents in addition to thee $4,000). They advised us to provide her with incentives at the end of each week (or she would probably shut down and refuse to return for the next week!). So, we had to buy her things, take her place, etc. It was incredible. The program solved nothing for us. (In fact, at last-years Natl. LD Conf., some professional studies were read addressing the unsuccessfulness of this program.) My daughter had a terrible summer that summer. Looking back, we wished that we would have used that summer having her work with an academic language tutor or any kind of one-on-one tutoring would have been more beneficial. We’ve seen more progress with the academic-language-tutor approach than anything else so far. However, I personally know of a few parents (2 or 3) that said FF was a miracle. We didn’t see it. I’m sorry to say that I think programs at his price serve as magnets for parents like us who can afford such programs and are willing to try anything and everything! I was guilty!! Hope this helps. SusanJanl wrote:
>
> An audiologist has strongly recommended this program for my
> son, (her testing revealed significant phonemic &
> phonological gaps on the CTOP), and I have two questions I
> need help with.
>
> #1 Does this schedule seem do-able? 2 weekdays,6:45-7:30 am
> plus 65 mins. in the afternoon when I will pull him out of
> school during Oct.-Nov. Two weekdays we will do the full
> session. in the aft.—one of these is a Fri. (last 110 mins.
> of the schoolday) and one other day we will start just after
> lunch and return him to school for 30 mins. of Social
> Sci./Science and 30 mins. Phys Ed. (We will pick one day on
> the weekend depending on our extracurricular activities.) I
> should add that he is a morning guy, has been up between
> 6:00am and 6:30 am since birth, and that I work as a teacher
> in the mornings. I also have one other child to get out the
> door. Obviously this is not going to be easy, but I hate the
> thought of waiting til next summer to do it when he has such
> a significant auditory processing deficit; besides, he
> apparently needs both levels of this program + PACE, so there
> is a lot to do, ideally before he gets out of the primary
> grades and into the content crunch. If he is not ready to do
> FF2 in the spring (mid-Apr.-June) we’ll need to save part of
> next summer. Meantime, simultaneously with FF we will be
> doing some vision therapy.
> I asked both experts (visual & auditory) if this would be too
> much, but they thought not, since you drop minutes of the FF
> games as you go along as mastery is achieved. Is this plan
> feasible?
>
> #2 As I am 5 hrs away from the audiologist, she has proposed
> I be a co-provider and receive support from her staff by
> e-mail and phone (advice, tips, a reward program and
> follow-up to see if the positive changes are stable). I
> haven’t yet received a written report from her, despite
> requests. (I guess she’s swamped.) I’m sure I can clear this
> problem up but wonder if any of you have experience with this
> type of arrangement and can comment on its usefulness. I
> gather it can be tough to keep kids at this pgm. and so I
> thought an outside “presence”, even a distant one, might
> help. Thanks for your help with this!

Thanks, Rosie
Your points are well-taken. My son realized amazing benefits from one-on-one tutoring in LiPs & Barton (over 2 grade levels in reading in 3 mos.). You are right about professionals having a myopic view sometimes; although the audiologist we saw does screen for a number of programs (NeuroNet, PACE, Interactive Metronome as well as FF) her overall view of my son seemed a bit doom and gloom given his remarkable gains. Her explanation is that he is using well what he’s been taught but will now bottom out—won’t progress further with any reading program until the CAPD is dealt with. At first I was inclined to buy into this since I was seeing a “plateau”, but just tonight as my son read The Boxcar Children to me with about 98% accuracy and good fluency, I thought…wait a minute! And well, he is only 8! To say as she did that “if university is to be an option for him” FF is crucial seems outlandish. And surely the process of reading is more than the sum of its parts! Vision therapy, he does need for sure, however. Without my help he would lose his place constantly.

Feedback like yours, and boards like these, are so helpful. Spending a lot of money to increase family overload and court burnout is not a good plan for anyone. I am now revising my plan. (Vision therapy first; FF in the Spring
and into the summer; the rest if it’s needed in the future.)

Thanks.

Mary,
How much down time do you recommend between the games? (At a 110 mins. I had factored in just two mins. which sounds like way to little.) I think this program will be a struggle as my son (then 7) found Earobics 2 much too difficult and frustrating. (It also doesn’t have enough of a focus on auditory memory.)

The vision therapy will be administered at home by us, 10 mins. 2x a day for (I think) 5-6 weeks. When tested pre-LD screening my son was “borderline”for visual field and visual tracking problems. The developmental optometrist didn’t mention it at the time because I guess it’s not unusual for someone to be borderline at age 7. When the audiologist (who also screens for PACE) picked up on the difficulties in this area, I called the optometrist who suggested I bring him in in Oct.

Would you recommend a child have a whole afternoon off school to do this, or be out of school altogether? I’m starting to wonder if it’s feasible for a working mother (even a part-timer like me) to do this. I think mid-May, running into the summer holiday might be good. I’m sure the school wouldn’t object to my liberating him for full afternoons after the first week or two of June. In our non-air-conditioned schools, not a lot of work gets done then!

Thanks for your input.

Thanks, Beth. It’s good to be able to get a reality check from someone who’s done it.

Susan, I am intrigued by the studies reported at the National LD Conference. (U.S. I assume…I am e-mailing from Canada.) Can you tell me more about these? or the name and date of the conference. Maybe I can get hold of tapes of lectures.

Your experience sounds horrendous and a pointless waste of time and money.

You are right, parents can be sitting ducks. I am starting to get bad vibes about the CAPD audiologist who tested my son. I thought a selling point was that this person screens for a number of programs (including NeuroNet and PACE), which I felt would make the assessment a more objective one. My son has severe LDs (auditory and visual processing), adding to my concern and desire for a well-rounded assessment. (We started, of course, with the std. psycho-ed. testing.) However, after paying for the audiology assessment and getting the low-down orally, I have still not received the written version, after 2 months. (This professional may be swamped, but a simple acknowledgement takes no time.) Nor am I getting replies to my e-mails and telephone call. (A registered letter is my next step.) Like you, I can afford it, but I don’t like to throw money away, or waste my time or my son’s. Although I’ve read positive things about this program, it sounds so gruelling you start to wonder if the people who designed it have children or much contact with them at all! I would be interested to know of any peer reviews that are critical. Thanks.

Jan,

I think you just have to be careful that your child fits the profile that FFW is most likely to help. Also realize that FFW does not help all types of CAPD. My son tested as still having CAPD after doing FFW. But he tested in the normal range on decoding of speech—the area that FFW is most likely to help. He still had auditory integration difficultires, which FFW does nothing for. We are now doing Neuronet therapy with good results.

We saw the most gains in receptive language and auditory memory. My son used to be the sort of kid who you could talk about anything around. We thought he just was less nosy than our other children. Turns out he just wasn’t picking up conversations when he wasn’t totally paying attention. Now this change has been a mixed blessing!!! Afterwards, he has tested in low normal for auditory memory. We have seen further gains with Neuronet.

I suspect that the reason the audiologist said what he did is that your son is an overachiever, given his disabilities. You should be proud of yourself for that. Whether he truly will top out, as he suggests, depends on the extent to which he can continue to learn and his ability to compenstate. If he is already reading near grade level than I would suspect that it is auditory skills that will get your son. Those become more important as they move up in grades. So I wouldn’t panic about trying to do FFW right now.

BTW, I work and managed to do FFW with my son.

As far as how much time between games, my son needed about 1/2 hour for every twenty minutes he did. He was younger than your son though and had a very difficult time with the activities. I would think most children could handle two games and then a break.

Beth