I have a question about signing IEPs.

My school’s IEP front page has two places for parents to sign - one for attendance, and one for agreement. I know other people who have signed IEPs so the good parts can be implemented, but they also write ON the IEP proper the things they disagree with.

The Addendum forms only have one place to sign - I thought I was signing that I attended, but I was signing I agreed! I immediately wrote a letter specifying my disagreements and stating that I had signed that line inadvertently.

Note: The IEP pages aren’t numbered or dated for my son’s IEPs. I ALWAYS date and number the pages in MY handwriting (pg. 1 of 9, 01/21/03) so they can’t “lose” pages or substitute them - and I get copies before I leave the building.

I don’t know what to tell you about never signing that you agree with an IEP. Have you disagreed in writing? Have you ever received a prior written notice? I imagine not signing, but then not disagreeing in writing could be seen as tacit agreement if the issue should ever go to court.

Lil

Excellent point! I think I need to write a letter stating what my understanding of the IEP states.

I have written many letters in the past when I was trying to get things changed to what they are now.
I think I need to state how successful the current implementation has been with the right type of teacher.
My biggest fear is that they will stick me with some crazy drill seargent of a teacher again. The we will need to change the IEP to have a list of accomodations. I prefer that he just get a flexible teacher who naturally accomodates him by not being a stickler for neatness/spelling and not having a cow every time he stands up to get a drink of water.

Hi Linda,

You are right that signing the “attendance” page is not the same as signing that you agree with the IEP. Most states and districts have two separate places for these signatures, one to signify that you were present, and the other that you are in agreement. Read the fine print just above the signature line to make sure, though…

I don’t see how they could be giving your son any special ed. services whatsoever, though, if you have never signed an IEP. They are not allowed to give your son any services or even to test him with your signature on a piece of paper. After that, he is protected by the “stay put” provision if they propose a change, and you don’t sign that you agree, the services just continue as they were until the matter is resolved, through informal means, mediation or due process.

Lil is also right that you should document any concerns you have on the IEP in writing, or immediately after in a separate letter if you forget to do that. Usually there is a place for this, but if not, use any available space, and make sure they put it in your words, don’t let them twist things. You have the right to have input into the goals, at the very least, so come prepared with some ideas of your own if possible, and make sure the goals really hold them accountable for his progress, or lack thereof, in ways you can understand and document. Often this means asking for some kind of standardized testing each year, rather than the more wishy-washy “teacher observation” and “work samples” that districts like to use. If you can compare a child’s progress from year to year on standardized tests, on the same test whenever possible, you have a lot more ammunition if you need it…

Keep asking for what you want for him, don’t just let them dictate what they want to give him, and stick to your guns… you are your child’s best chance for a decent education, whatever the district or school… Good luck!

Sharon

Check with your special ed. parents’ group or the parent’s rights brochure put out by your state; in Mass. you’re either receiving special ed. services under an IEP or you’re not in special ed….like you can’t be a little bit pregnant…there’s no such thing as being on an IEP and not in special ed.

My son had that type of teacher last year, but not this year. When they tell you it doesn’t need to be written into the IEP because “all good teachers automatically provide that” don’t listen to them.. It depends on the teacher your child gets next year.

Lil

they go on leave, change grades, go on maternity leave, etc. no sense worrying about them; in middle school there will be 8 or 9 teachers(one for each subject, plus study halls, etc.)

Spoken like someone whose child never had to spend his day with a mrs B.

When my son has 8 or 9 teachers surely he won’t get 8 or 9 Mrs Bs and even if he gets one, by then, he should be better armed to handle it.

It is a little different when your child spends his entire day with someone who just doesn’t get it.

I had plenty of mothers in that women’s class asking me how I got my son out.

I think I did sign the intitial IEP way back when. I just haven’t signed one in a long time. No one has even asked me to sign.
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it. I am going to ask about this at the next meeting.

Well you can get just a little bit of services. My son is mainstreamed receiving OT and that is pretty much it. With a differen teacher he would need accomodations but I haven’t found that anything needs to be written down with this teacher. She is just one of those who naturally accomodates her students by being a decent human being. This is a perfect world, one that I am not convinced we shall have next year.
He isn’t in a special ed class but he is classified sped. I know others who have the same sitiuation and zero services.

They are even less pregnant than me!

I admire you; in our system parents have no choice about teachers and they often change grades; a K teacher moves to 3rd, they change schools within the district, etc.

Maybe he’s on 15 min consult? My daughter is definitely special ed, BUT what the school didn’t tell me is you can be special ed and not go to the special ed room (I learned that from someone else). She receives accoms., has an IEP, receives OT and test accoms, but remains in the general ed classroom.

We write letters every year advising the kind of teacher she needs.

Here I go….another button. It is not illegal to bring a draft IEP to a meeting. It is illegal to refuse to change things. It is highly possible to collect good diagnostic and other assessment data and KNOW (because we are teachers and we do know some things about what we are doing) what needs to be taught. It is not an overwhelming challenge to write reasonable goals and objectives before the meeting based on the data I have collected. And, I do and it takes me a good hour or more. I have to write goals/objectives and look them up in the state standards and reference them.

It is also possible to collect solid behavioral data (when this is an issue) and write goals in that area to prior to the meeting.

The meeting should be opened with a statement to the effect that the IEP is a draft, that it will be reviewed and discussed and that the team can make changes.

Given the length of time this entire process takes me times the number of times per year I must complete this, on top of teaching full time and attending other after school meetings, I am afraid that I do not have hours to invest in any single child’s IEP meeting, unless there are some very complex issues. Most students are not that complex and I can do my 4-5 hours of assessment, meet with the classroom teacher and prepare a thorough report and write a good draft. Total time invested is 5-7 hours in this process, before the IEP.

Naturally I am always polite to parents and do not try to shove them out of the meeting. I am always available to them, etc. Generally, however I do consider myself to be a “specialist” in certain areas, so I do not ask the parent to tell me what goals they want written, anymore than I tell the doctor what to diagnose or prescribe, though I will make my feelings known to him or her. I am generally happy to give parents the time they need and to answer all questions. Occasionally a parent can and does usurp a very disproportionate amoutn of time and in these cases we all protect each other with tactics to keep contacts short with that parent, otherwise we would never get our jobs dones. Also, once the assessment data is laid on the table, the goals and objectives needed are generally pretty obvious. Signing as a participant is verification for legal purposes of who attended the meeting. There is another signature to sign to agree to the IEP.

Thanks Anitya that is helpful.

Just so you hear the other side. My situation is that I feel that anything I say in the meeting is ignored. It ends up taking alot of time for me to be heard.

My son has had 3 casemanagers in 1.5 years of sped. He has grown a tremendous amount in that time period but because objective data is not collected I am the only one who seems aware of that fact. An yes, I have asked for specific objective data. He can be a completely different child under different settings and although this is documented amongst the reams of paper it is information that gets repeatedly ignored. I have sat in meetings where the suggestion I made last year (graph paper for lining up math problems) that was ignored is now looked upon as “a great idea.” when brought up by the sped teacher. It is a totally different group so I am the only one who knows this happened.
In the end his current teacher will be gone. I am the one who will be looked upon as the creator of the final product that is my child as an adult. Since I carry that responsiblity I expect the authority to say where he should be. If they hadn’t failed so poorly in the past I would not have had to learn all I have.

I really wish it was as easy as taking your child to school and knowing they will do the right thing. I really did start with that assumption.

PS. The best patients are always the one’s who are actively involved in their health care. Any doctor worth his salt will tell you that.

Boy, Linda

I think we have been living parallel lives! :-) The things I requested for my son at his very first IEP meeting (that were denied) suddenly were written into his last IEP - over a year later. So, if they thought he didn’t need it then, why does he suddenly need it now? Because it was someone else’s idea, not mine. If he had received those services when they were first requested, he wouldn’t have quite so much to unlearn in order to learn how to do things the correct way.

I really respect and appreciate all the teachers on this board, and the time, effort, and energy they put into their students - and OUR children! But I do find it insulting (in my school district) to be continually told that people who have never met my son nor done any work with him understand his needs better than me - who does the nightly homework, who helps with projects, who is receipient of the melt-downs after my son has held it together all day at school, who reteaches lessons he should have learned in school because the teacher isn’t doing it in a way his brain finds accessible, who scribes all his written work for him, who has asked questions of professionals who have worked with kids like him, who has researched the most current information on his various disorders and needs, and who loves him above all else and truly respects his accomplishments.

Lil

First to Linda re: signing IEP- we did not sign any, but at the VERY initial meeting we signed the “placement agreement” (or whatever the official name was) and on this document is stated that we will need to revoke our permission if we do not agree with the placement described on IEP. Hence this document is valid as long as we do not submit an official veto to whatever placements were proposed during PPT meetings.

As for being heard: we were to some, very small extend, but the situation had changed somehow when we brought the LDA advocate and started submitting our suggestions in writing. The situation changed for better when we had our son tested outside of school and I ordered testing with the same tool that had been used two years earlier in school and finally I can document how our son was not really where the school RR teacher stated he was and I was able to present data that documented his regression. The funniest of all was the change after the nueropsychological evaluation presented by the private psychologist, and he refered to me as Dr. in the official report adn during teh meeting, since I have a Ph.D. I found it very funny, but it worked to our son’s advantage….

And asking for the Director of special Ed for a district to attend a PPT meeting changed the situation even more dramatically. She REALLY listened to what we had to say….

You are very kind in responding as you did. I am sure you are handling things well and that you may be frustrated.

I have buttons and overreact to some issues at times.

here is one of my buttons:-)

As well as you are a “specialist” and should absolutley be treated as such, you are NOT the authority on my child.I am,the parent. Hence the reason the federal government sat down and wrote all these little revisions to IDEA requesting that schools allow EQUAL participation in the IEP process. Being that YOU are a “specialist” in educating my child,having data, that I might need, to gleem understanding prior to the IEP,would be the reason I should have this report before I meet with you at the IEP. This might save you a lot of time.Now being a very good teacher,you also must be aware that all children are not the same. Spending 8 hours a day with one,doesn’t not necessarily make you KNOW what do use or not to use. KNOWING the child might. It is possible to not only give the parent your “polite” attention,but to actually listen would be helpful, and could quite possibly save you time in the long run. No one here is saying you don’t know,all I am saying, is I might know something too. And please do not forget the length of time you mention having to spend preparing for the IEP. Multiply that by about ten for a parent. We don’t write them everyday,we spend endless hours sometimes trying to understand how to write one,let alone understand that the goal must be “measurable”,only to get into an IEP meeting and everyone ignore our “draft” ideas. Don’t forget the knowing glances to each other,like everyone knows something we don’t. The purposeful sighs,and the condenscending responses. Then to take time off from work,to pull you away from your students,everyone is being put out.It’s time consuming,you have more kids then I do,but your getting paid,while I am doing my part outside of my job.

Don’t we all have buttons. I think if you didn’t care about your job you wouldn’t have any buttons.
I don’t always agree with you but I do learn from your perspective. I think as parents we need to see the frustrations our childrens’ teachers face and work to make it easier for everyone.

That type of service is very common. Some sped kids have developed great fitting in skills and with great work ethic, minor accomodations will allow them the opportunity to remain in the general education classes.

You don’t sign anything? Your child should not be receiving any services.

Ewa,

I think that is it. It is the only thing that makes sense.
I wrote a note to the case manager immediately after reading your post stating what I agreed and disagreed with.
I also asked for a copy of his most recent IEP for my records. I also haven’t received one of those in a long time.

Ahh, in a perfect world. Many children in my district do not have IEPs. Some are lucky enough to be receiving the services discussed at the IEP meeting, however, and that’s considered a perk. There is every excuse in the book - but what it boils down to is no accountability - forget about mediation, due process, etc. - unless you have gone that route and it has been worth it for you, put the thought out of your head. There are many improvements that are needed in the world of special ed - not just from educators, parents, transportation, etc - but in administration, also.

When my child was 5, she couldn’t read, sing with a group, rhyme, or tie her shoes. When she was 6 she couldn’t read, sing with a group, rhyme, write or tie her shoes, when she was 7 she couldn’t… etc.

“She’s fine”, “She’s developmentally delayed”, “She’s being obstinate”, etc.

I got an eval.: “Severe specific LDs in ALL academic areas and significant processing delays in all areas…

I went into the 1st IEP meeting, saying “Well, I guess I AM the expert on this child…”

I’m the one who sees the meltdowns after she “sucks it up” all day at school trying to fit and learn and stay caught up.

I’m the one who spends countless hours (outside my REAL job) learning about LDs and researching and paying for private services.

I’m the expert on my child.

Ah, Leah,

Our expericences are similar, our schools aren’t.

> When my child was 5, she couldn’t read, sing with a group,
> rhyme, or tie her shoes. When she was 6 she couldn’t read,
> sing with a group, rhyme, write or tie her shoes, when she
> was 7 she couldn’t… etc.
>
> “She’s fine”, “She’s developmentally delayed”, “She’s being
> obstinate”, etc.

> I got an eval.: “Severe specific LDs in ALL academic areas
> and significant processing delays in all areas…

The school said, “He’s fine, he’ll outgrow it. Don’t worry, Mom, just watch and see how well he is going to do.”
>
> I went into the 1st IEP meeting, saying “Well, I guess I AM
> the expert on this child…”
>
> I’m the one who sees the meltdowns after she “sucks it up”
> all day at school trying to fit and learn and stay caught up.

They said, “He has melt-downs at home due to your bad parenting. We don’t see that at school, so it doesn’t exist

> I’m the one who spends countless hours (outside my REAL job)
> learning about LDs and researching and paying for private
> services.

The school says, “You’re just a mom, we’re the experts. We look at standardized test scores, and know your child better than you do.”

> I’m the expert on my child.

My son’s school says, “We’re the experts on your child. You don’t know anything, and you have to accept what we tell you.”

Lil

Hi Anitya,

Our SPED people always come to the table with a draft of the IEP, and I think that’s great. I don’t want to spend hours and hours in a “committee” meeting either. If I think there are specific issues that need to be addressed that aren’t, we discuss it during the meeting and come to an agreement. (or not, but usually we do)

Then I take the draft home with me, and go over it carefully. One thing that I have seen over the years is that the new person doing the IEP will import the old file and modify that. This is fine, but it can lead to an IEP getting longer and longer, with lots of redundancies. I think a long IEP is probably harder for classroom teachers to wade through to find the important stuff. So when I proof it at home, I take out any redundancies, correct any typos, and make any minor changes in wording that I think will clarify things.

Then I take it back to the SPED person for revision. If the changes are minor, I’ll just give them the corrected version to work from. This year, as my son went from elementary school to middle school, there was a LOT of material carried forward that didn’t make sense in the new environment/schedule, and other accommodations that needed to be made to address his needs in a multi class, multi teacher environment. (these were actually already being done, but needed to be documented in the IEP) I actually retyped those sections and gave them to the SPED teacher on disk, so she could just cut and paste, dropping them in to the right places in the document if she agreed. (our school system uses a computer program which generates all the boiler plate, so the changeable parts can just be dropped in, probably most school systems do at this point?)

Writing a good IEP is a lot of work, and this proof reading area is one where I feel like I can help a little and not add a larger burden to the SPED teacher’s schedule. I’d rather have her in the classroom teaching my kid than doing paperwork! So far, when I’ve approached this from the perspecitve of helping, without giving the impression of trying to take over, every SPED person I’ve worked with has been glad to have me do this part.

When the changes have all been made, I read it over one more time and then sign it.

Karen

wow Karen,this is a great example of working together as a team! Neither side feeling superior,and both helping each other out. Isn’t this the way it should be?

I think you should go back to the beginning steps in either a paperwork review or in a meeting: how is your child classified, what is the placement(may be 100%reg.ed.), services(sounds like direct OT is being given), benchmarks, goals and objectives….then you sign and agree. You may disagree and refuse the IEP and all services…we did, but it sounds like you want some of special ed.,just not the RR placement.

It took a lot of years to get to this point. We had to get to the point that I was knowledgeable enough (about both SPED law AND my kid’s issues) and until the school people KNEW I was knowledgeable enough that they started respecting me.

That and I have always tried to meet them half way. For instance, I really pushed them to give him keyboarding instruction, with the understanding that I would provide the lap top when the time came. I insist that all new teachers read the information I provide on NLD, but I also paid for his SPED teacher to attend an LD conference where ther were two talks on NLD, but she could choose which speakers she wanted to listen to the rest of the day.

Unfortunately, I’ve heard often enough of school systems, (or more often one or two really obstructionist employees) who really make it close to impossible for the parents to start building a relationship of trust and respect. Before Anitya jumps in ;-), I’ll say that I’m sure there are some parents who make it pretty difficult as well.

Karen

I hesitate to give gen. ed teachers a complete IEP. There are some limited need-to-know information that they don’t need. However, anything that would be relevant for the academic success of that student is provided to the teacher. Also, that teacher is legally held to abide by that IEP so they should have the accomodations required.

In my message, (which your message is attached to) I wasn’t talking about general ed teachers in terms of writing the IEP. I was talking about either the SPED teacher. (or the person called the “Student Services Administrator” who actually drafts the IEP’s for our elementary school students)

But my personal experience as a parent leads me to strongly disagree with the idea that general ed teachers should not be given the entire IEP. IMO, the classroom teachers are left at a tremendous disadvantage if they don’t truly understand the entire picture. I don’t think it is fair to them or my child. (it’s probably not fair to the SPED teacher either)

Quite the opposite of your suggestion, I don’t leave it to chance that general ed teachers will see my son’s IEP. I put together a packet for EVERY teacher my son will have for the year, containing a copy of the IEP, two articles about NLD in general, and a single page “cheat sheet” of specific problems that are likely to come up under classroom conditions that will help them in responding appropriately to his needs. I deliver these to school during the couple of days between when the teachers return to school and when the kids start with a cover letter introducing myself, and asking them to feel free to call me if they have any further questions.

I follow this up by setting up a meeting with the teachers (either individually or as a group, which ever they prefer) 2 or 3 weeks into the year to touch base, see how things are going and address any questions/concerns they might have. It is abundantly clear at these meetings which teachers (if any) haven’t read the material I’ve provided. Those are the teachers I know I need to keep an eye on during the year. (interestingly, these are usually the “specials” teachers like gym, health, music, etc.)

The response I’ve received to this approach has been overwhelmingly positive. The teachers feel supported and better informed. This puts them in a much better position to to deal with my son in a positive, constructive manner. It also prevents anyone from coming back later and saying, “I didn’t know…” I feel more comfortable and confident because I have the “lay of the land” and have an idea where the trouble spots may crop up, and with whom.

As always YMMV.

Karen

in NJ, it is required that the general ed teacher have a copy of the IEP if they are teaching a student who has one. Since they are legally responsible, they should have the entire IEP.

It is not up to the special ed teacher to decide who has a need to know what. As a parent, I would be extremely upset if any teacher took it upon themselves to make that decision. What if I as a parent felt differently? As an equal part of the IEP team, not only would I want a say, but I would want to be sure that my child’s rights were protected, and not decided by any one person.

Karen - I do much of the same. At the beginning of the school year, I provide additional information on my child - and look to meet as a team early in the year, even tho informally. My child has limited language, and an auditory processing disorder, so he cannot come home and report accurate information. He is very deceiving - and it often takes staff a while to catch on. I also find it best to include one-on-one tutoring over the summer as part of his ESY program with the teacher(s) who will be working with him - even if only for a week.

I’m glad to read that I am not alone in my thinking!

P.S. I agree, it is important for the reg ed teacher to have the entire copy of the IEP - and the law provides for it.

I’m right with you there!

Karen

>> P.S. I agree, it is important for the reg ed teacher to have the entire copy of the IEP - and the law provides for it.<<

I thought it did, but I wasn’t positive if it was state law here in MA, or part of IDEA, and I was too lazy to go look it up ;-)

Karen

Your a parent??? I didn’t know that as a parent you have control over who get the IEP. I thought that was written into the state code. In New Jersey it is. If your a teacher and you are making that choice, I think you are very wrong. If a person is supposed to be working with my child, then they need the ‘whole’ picture. As parent, I really hope that you are not overstepping your boundaries, it can really hurt the kids.

I know you didn’t address this directly to me, but I am a parent and we ABSOLUTELY have a right to share our child’s IEP with anyone who we deem appropriate. My son’s social skills therapists and pediatrician both have copies of my son’s IEP as well as the teachers.

My understanding is that without express written permission of the parents, the school can ONLY share a child’s IEP with school personnel who work with that specific child. When my son was younger, it was clear that his classroom teachers had access to his IEP (and had read it) prior to the start of each school year. “Specials” teachers usually knew which kids were on IEP’s, but often didn’t know (hadn’t read? didn’t remember? didn’t care?) about the details unless the child had “behavior” issues. (mine doesn’t) They sometimes needed reminders when they assigned work that was inappropriate. (often the classroom teacher did this before I even was aware of the problem)

Unfortunately, once they get old enough to have multiple teachers, it gets a bit more challenging to make sure everyone is on the same page. That’s why I take it upon myself to make sure that no one can say they haven’t seen it.

Karen

Karen

It appears that Gloria was responding to Samantha - an 8:07 AM post if you follow the marks on up…

Right. That’s why I said I knew she wasn’t addressing it to me.

karen

I wanted to know why someone would decide not to share the IEP? Especially a parent. But as I look on this board and others I get the impression that the poster I responded to is not the parent of a classified child. I don’t want my child’s special ed teacher with holding the IEP, that is not her/his role or right. I feel like Karen, that all teachers, including the specials teachers should not only have but they should read the IEP. I also think that a good IEP is going to address all aspects of the child’s school day. I get nervous when I read some of these post. Some are sooooooo negative toward us parents and toward our children. Karen, I hope I didn’t offend… I was looking for clarification from the other post.

Nope. Certainly not offended. I just wanted to make sure you knew _I_ agree with you!

Karen