Please help - new here & confused

OK, not a test expert here, and I’ll let a text expert speak to the details.

I see a pattern here that is very very common in my students: Skips “little” words, guesses at longer ones, struggles with work, takes forever to finish work, but does OK on isolated testing, trouble getting worse in Grade 3 — red flag for inefficient reading strategies, guessing by sight and not using phonetic strategies. Yes, he passed the phonics evaluation, but what I have discovered over time is that a lot of these phonics evaluations are at kindergarten level, basicaly initial consonants and maybe a short vowel or two; also, kids sometimes pick up a habit of sounding out when being tested but going back to guessing on continuous text, becasue it’s “easier” and “faster” — the child doesn’t know that it is really slowing him down becasue he has no comparison to go by.

It takes time and hard work, but you can get a lot of improvement by having him read orally to you, sounding out every unfamiliar word and correcting *every single error*. At first it is frustrating but after he picks up that you will *not* let the errors slide, he will turn around and get more accurate. The funny thing is that reading gets *faster* after slowing down and getting accurate first.
At the same time, you need to teach advanced phonics, particularly vowel combinations and breaking up syllables. It is also good to re-teach handwriting with a stress on directionality, and after he is writing consistently left-to-right and top-to-bottom, then work on spelling by sounding out syllables.
None of this is big and flashy and it’s the same advice other weak readers get — but it works.
Lots of people have their favourite system and many will tell you that a certain program will cure everything. Well, it isn’t the program per se, but what you do with it that counts. Any good complete phonics program that covers all the vowel patterns and syllables in a systematic way can help; the main thing is to *teach* it actively and to *unteach* the counterproductive rush-and-guess approach.
Feel free to ask me for my teaching/tutoring outlines with recommendations of several effective materials and programs. [email protected]

I think there could be some truth in what Victoria said, but my impression of these scores is that they are quite good across the board, especially for a child who is taking 3 hours at night to do homework (which is totally unacceptable for a third grader). I think the OT issues are at least partially reflected in scores such as coding, which involves visual motor skills, attention, memory, etc. Skipping little words can be a part of a reading disorder, and it can be an attention issue. I think you’d have to have a CTOPP, GORT, and a word attack subtest to have any real idea about the reading skills. However, the low spelling score is an indicator that the decoding skills probably could use some help, as Victoria suggested.

However, doing relatively well on an individualized test and taking three hours to do homework sounds VERY much like ADD inattentive to me. I’d be taking him to a neurologist or someone with a continuous performance test to really confirm or rule out the ADD. A school psychologist can screen for ADD, but they are not medical doctors and ADD should be diagnosed by a doctor. A clinical psychologist can diagnose, but they cannot prescribe medication. So I’d probably choose a neurologist or pediatric neurologist who freqently diagnoses ADD/ADHD.

Janis

Victoria & Janis, thank you both so much for your help! I will email you victoria for your book in progress.

Back in 1st/2nd, when he had so much trouble learning to read, we worked nearly every night for 20-30 min. He did improve alot over that time. His teacher said he is average with other kids in reading. However, now in 3rd, by the time we complete the homework, there is no way he’s willing to do extra reading. I thought he was reading well until the reading comprehension homework began. Then I realised he’s not getting the concept. He resists reading, even stories he likes. You’re probably right about inefficient reading strategies. The funny thing is, he spells phonetically. There= thar, was= wos, because= becos, girl=gurl, uncle= unkl. His OT is working with him on handwriting, among other things (he couldn’t button pants until the end of 2nd grade).

Janis - i have to admit, I was shocked by the test results. I see how he struggles each night and couldn’t believe the tests came back average. The reading tests that you mentioned - CTOPP, GORT - are these administered by the school?

We had dismissed ADD b/c the psych said he was average and the ped. exam was not thorough, just a few questions. We had taken him to the ped. b/c he had stabbed himself in the leg w/ a pencil for no apparent reason during reading class. Also, he liked to sharpen pencils alot (to get out of his seat i think) and constantly break pencil points so he could sharpen. They limited him to two pencils and he wasn’t allowed to wear a watch b/c he kept checking the time. This year he asks to go to the nurse nearly every day.

I guess we should revisit ADD. Will a ped. neurologist be able to suggest accommodations if he’s diagnosed? Do I ask the school to send him for an outside evaluation or is that something I have to do through his ped.? I’m guessing the school doesn’t pay for it… Also, can a ped. neurologist diagnose if it’s something else like CAPD or NLD?

I just want to help him out in anyway I can. But until we learn what the problem is, it’s hard to come up with a strategy. I feel like I have to stay on top of this, b/c i’m not certain the school is. I don’t want him to slip through the cracks. Sorry for all the questions - I appreciate all your help!

There are other things that can cause “ADD” type symptoms - Visual Motor or Processing disorders, Auditory Disorders, Sensory Integration Disorders, etc. To get a more thorough evaluation, you may wish to request an IEE (Independent Educational Evaluation) from the school. This would be outside testing by a Neuropsychologist paid for by the school. You can choose the Neuropsychologist to do the testing. It is preferable to find someone who is very thorough in their testing, does not try to do it all in one day and has a lot of experience. You will want to request testing in all areas of concern. (With his issues, I would request testing across all areas.)

My dd’s school testing has always come back in the “average” range even though she has serious LDs. When we did get outside testing - she got tested by Neuropsychologist, SLP, OT, Audiologist, and Educational Vision Specialist - the results were quite clear that she has serious impairment in a number of areas and wasn’t the “lazy” or “inattentive” child that the school had indicated.

There are a lot of different ways to correct issues, its a matter of finding what works for your child. If touchmath works, use it. Both of my children have tried Visual Therapy - it worked great for my oldest and bombed for my dd. Don’t give up, though. There is a lot out there to try.

I would revisit ADD… but I would honestly want to revisit it with a different doctor. I could well imagine this one’s next “diagnostic” step to be (I say this because of personal experience, not because I’ve ‘heard this happens’) “okay, let’s try Ritalin.” I woudl want a referral to an ADD expert (sigh, and I’d want to find one who didn’t find 100% of the folks referred to him/her as ADD, too…)

An important question is whether these attention problems happen all the time, or whether they’re pretty much always associated with academics. Basically, if you’re in over your head, you *will* have attention problems. The symptoms will be exactly the same; the cause is what’s different.

Those scores do have some real red flags for reading problems of the dyslexic sort, though not all of ‘em. I see a “big picture” thinker, who does a lot better at the “similarities” subtest which requires sophisticated consideration of verbal relationships, than he does on “vocabulary,” which just requires you to know what a single word means. I might ask him if he remembers being asked to remember numbers and how he did that (if he had a strategy), because that “Digit Span” is very nice and strong in the 50th percentile. That’s an ADD or auditory processing problem flag that isn’t waving. However, if he’s learned or figured out a strategy for memorizing & spitting things back then that score might be inflated.

He *consistently* does “high average” on exactly the tests requiring the most thinking (story recall, applied problems, similarities, block design. (I’m not familiar with all of the subtests, tho’, since I haven’t worked specifically with the new WISC.)

The low coding score can be due to a number of factors - it requires good fine motor skills, quick processing of unfamiliar symbols, *lots* of just plain focus, and probably three other things I’m not remembering.

I notice that there is no “word attack” test score given. ASK. (I know one of the WJ tests has it, but not another.) The most wildly waving red flag for me is when a kiddo has “word attack” a grade or two (or three when they’re older) below “passage comprehension.” (If it’s also better than letter/word I.D. then I look for gifted/LD because the kiddo is using less information - words correctly read - and getting more understanding.)
Also, not having any discussion of word attack skills sometimes is a red flag for a school that is immersed in whole language, even to the point of considering “word attack” to mean the evil forcing of nonsense words on children. If that’s your situation, then get him out of the resource room, get Victoria’s materials (or Abecedarian, or Reading Reflex, or one of the other solid programs that systematically teach that phonics stuff), and figure he may not have an LD at all… it really could be dyspedagogia (the wrong teaching for him). Do you know waht their philosophy of reading instruction is?

The Gray Oral Reading Test (GORT) is a 1:1 test teachers give (I think the others are too, but I haven’t given them). Many schools don’t have it. It takes a long time - students have to reaxd passages orally, until they score too poorly on comprehension. You can tell a *lot* if you know what you’re doing.
Frankly, I would take a hard look at academic priorities and homework (if you haven’t already). It could be that getting the homework done is the best way for him to be learning as much as he can. However, I would consider giving him lots of help (reading with him, taking dictation and writing answers for him) - and try to figure out just exactly what is slowing him down. I think this may tell you better than the doc whether it’s attention or skills, though again, having trouble staying on task can be because of clinical ADD *or* because the task is stressful and difficult. I’d look for the kind of learning situation where he can feel successful - (can he draw? is he a hands-on learner? if he’s jumping up and down while he’s saying those math facts, do they stick better - or does the movement have to be *part* of the thinking process?) He is definitely NOT stupid - again, the areas of the testing that require the most thinking are where he’s above average, not even just plain ‘normal.’ I’m thinking school is being just a little toxic to him right now :-(
What is it my middle schoolers used to say at teh end of notes? Sorry So Long, Sorry So SLoppy…. :-)

maxsmom, Your son is a lucky boy to have you looking out for him and working so hard to find what is best for him. I would agree that a neuropsych eval would be very beneficial. Private evals are expensive, but we have found them to be worth their weight in gold.

As a side note, you might make sure his nutritional status is good. When our kids struggle with learning, I think it is crucial we give them everything their brain needs to perform at it’s best. A good multi vit, exra magnesium, omega 3 oils are what we use. It won’t cure the problem, but we can see slight differences over time. You seem like a Mom who wants to do everything you can, so thought I would throw that out. http://millermom.proboards23.com/ This board has an alternative section that has good info if your want to know more.

Good luck.

First of all, I want to thank you all so much for taking the time to read my post and offer your suggestions. I knew something wasn’t right, but I didn’t know what the next step needed to be. Since he gets good grades, isn’t disruptive and the teachers like him, the school doesn’t really see a problem and I didn’t understand the test results. I want to make sure I’m prepared to go into the next CSE meeting.

scifinut - over the last two years I suspected ADD, processing disorder and sensory integration at different times. I’d request an evaluation by the school and they always came back in the normal range. I’d then second guess myself and figure I was expecting too much of my son or maybe he was immature and would grow out of it.

Sue - I’m going to request an IEE through the school. If they turn it down, we’ll do it independently. You’re right about his pediatrician, after 10 minutes he wanted to write a prescription. That’s why I dismissed his evaluation as it was not throrough. I requested a letter, however, from him stating it might be ADD so I had more ammunition with the school. It recommends “a full physiological, educational evaluation” so hopefully they will pay for it. DS shows some inattentive behaviors at home, but not consistently. Always with homework or cleaning his room (took 6 hrs last Saturday w/ lots of procrastination and redirection) He definitely has organization problems; there were piles everywhere when he was done even though for years I’ll help him and tell him where things go. He forgets to bring homework home once or twice a week and gets recess detention for it regularly. However, if it’s something he enjoys doing, he can spend hours on it. Sue, thanks for telling me my son’s not stupid - I cried when i read your post!

Rocco - thank you for your post. I never thought about how nutrition might play into this. Like most kids his age, he’s a picky eater. I will look into that website.

So once again, I thank you all!!! :o) I will bring the dr. letter to the school and request an IEE. I am also going to see if they’ll do a reading evaluation to see where he stands with that.

Oh by the way, the school uses a phonetics-based program. McGraw-Hill. The spellling and language arts books tie into each other. Is that a good one?