What next? 9yr old ADHD girl

It sure sounds like the school is not working for her right now. It sounds like the tutoring is more effective. If I were in your shoes, I think I would be looking for a school that approaches things in a very flexible way in terms of curriculum, not expecting her to read things she can’t read, and providing material that is within her grasp while gradually increasing the level of challenge, so that she can experience success.

Passing her on to the next level seems like a setup in any case. If she needs to work on basic reading and math concepts, that’s what she should be working on. On the other hand, just holding her back a year might mean another year of the same kind of frustration that she is already experiencing.

It is important to remember that not all kids will learn to read automatically in first or second grade. Many third graders read at a first grade level, which doesn’t mean you just accept that fact and don’t try to do something about it, but it’s not a cause for panic, either. It just means you have to put your energy into doing the kinds of things that a person with a first grade reading level can do, while working to improve the reading skills. This really means an individualized curriculum is essential.

So I would look at alternative schooling, or even home schooling, not necessarily with a focus on “learning diabilities” (though that would be fine if available) but with a focus on adjusting the curriculum to the needs of the child. It sounds like mainstreaming in a regular classroom has been an unmitigated disaster and to continue with it will just be more and more detrimental to her welfare. I understand that there was a study suggesting that children decide on the average in about fourth grade what their orientation to school is (whether they feel successful, like going, want to continue to learn in that atmosphere), and that their orientation does not change much after that. So this next year is critical, and she needs to be in a place where she can experience success in her own right, rather than feeling like the dumb kid who is behind everyone else and frustrates the teacher.

My youngest is in a charter school with completely individualized and self-paced curriculum, and there is little or no comparison between kids’ abilities. Everyone moves at their own pace, and pretty much every child feels successful. There are plenty of special ed kids, but no stigma, and no “special ed” classroom. In effect, everone there is treated like they are “special ed” in that they get what they need and the curriculum is focused on their needs, abilities and interests, rather than expecting everyone to learn the same things at the same time in the same fashion. It’s like a 504 plan for everyone, without the evaluations and stress and negativity that can be associated with that whole process. If you can find a place like that, I think your daughter might be able to rebuild her confidence and start to see school as a positive place and learning as a good thing rather than something associated with fear and humiliation.

Hope that is somewhat helpful. Hang in there and follow your instincts! You know your child better than anyone, and she is counting on you to be her advocate, so do what makes sense to you. You will get through this!

We did do Interactive Metronome with our own LD child and it really helped. But he scored so poorly on the pretest, that we did a year and a half of other therapy first.

The setting your child is in clearly isn’t working for her. A child with language processing issues is not likely to florish when she has to learn two languages.

On what basis did the individual at the learning center consider your daughter to have less than optimal intellectual capacity? Be aware that some LDs can impact IQ testing. My son tested borderline because of his inability to follow directions. He tested dead average once his auditory processing skills had been strengthened.

It is tough to be in your shoes. I have been there. I have a child too who was labeled as severely learning disabled. It is not necessarily a death sentence. My son was diagnosed with nonverbal learning disabilities, ADHD, and dyslexia and that was just by the neurologist! I want to tell you that today he is suceeding in a regular classroom as a B student. It is still more work for him than other kids and I have to assist him more than you typically would (he is in sixth grade). But this was a kid who I was told when he was in first grade could not learn.

Beth

Welcome!

Other places you might want to know about for support and ideas are:

http://www.schwablearning.org.

http://www.net-haven.net

http://millermom.proboards107.com/

peace,
marge

Hi. I am thinking of some things for you. Please email me.

Update: Spoke with the school yesterday, teacher mentioned her code has changed from LD to MI (mild intel delay). In a conversation later that day, the resource person said she was coded “at risk” and she said she would confirm.

Funny thing, when I asked her about speech therapy, why it stopped and when will it start again, she replied that therapy goes to grade 2, and that “language is in fact a relative strength for Rayana and not her most significant challenge”.

The center based her comments on the last psych assessment. Her WISC-IV full scale IQ at theupper extreme end of the borderline range of ability.

“No significant diff between verbal and non-verbal skiils but significant strength found on tasks measuring working memory skills.

Verbal comrehension was within the upper extreme end of the borderline range. Rayana demonstrated appropriate skills on the vocabulary subtest measuring her word knowledge, she scored very low on tasks measuring more abstract verbal reasoning and verbal concept formation.

Perceptual Reasoning composite score within lower limits of borderline and low average range of functioning.

Working Memory composite score in average range. The 21-point diff between working memory and verbal comprehension is significant and is indicative of verbal comprehension skills that are weaker than working memory skills. She showed relative strength in auditory short-term memory & sequencing skills.

Processing speed is at the lower limits of the low average range.”

Does this say anything to you that I may be missing?

Is this the school’s assessment? They are basically saying she is mildly mentally retarded rather than LD. What is her overall IQ score?

You are in Canada so the systems are different but here in the states I think that a adaptive behavior test would have to be given as well as an IQ test to change classification. I think a common one is called Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scale (VABS).

Basically, you want to makes sure your daughter is classified correctly as her classification will affect what services are considered appropriate for her.

Beth

These numbers are from assessment in 2003 when she was 5 and a bit

Full scale IQ 83
Verbal IQ Score 90
Performance IQ Score 80

I am so confused…here’s a kid that plays video games, likes to play computer math games (simple ones) starting to read on her own (non homework), skips double dutch, plays soccer, cartwheels, ties her own shoe laces…argues! and last, has memorized a little poem from a movie she likes…and recites it to anyone that will listen! yesterday she told me she wanted to recite it on the stage during assembly at school. Funny tho, how she can memorize the poem but not the multiplication tables!!

So caught up in the adhd thing and the school and the hospital pushing the meds…you’d think they may have looked deeper to rule out other things first. Part of the reason why I didnt jump onto the meds, felt there was something more. But did get caught up in believing that the school was doing all they can. Guess they are, but it’s evidently not enought. Last conversation with teacher was that the meds will really help Rayana, help me, and help the teachers…

An IQ of 83 is in the low normal range. An IQ below 70 clearly is in the mentally retarded category and 70-80 is considered borderline. Perhaps there is a difference in terminology between the two countries. I personally would be suspicious of the nonLD classification, as I think you are. The inconsistencies you observe are more characteristic of LD than of a low IQ.

My son at one point had tested as having an 84 IQ. He is solidly average now both in IQ and in achievement.

What you have to understand is that the expectations for her will be lower (by the school) if she is classified as having a mild cognitive delay than if she is classified as LD. Personally, I would fight it—make them test her adaptive skills. It seems to me that your sense of your daughter is that the label does not fit.

Beth

Listen to what Beth says, follow her advice, and ask her for details on what she has done with her son.

I would never recommend a foreign language focus school for a child with significant learning disabilities, particularly language based LD’s. I also do not feel that medical doctors are the most knowledgable about best educational placements. You might want to pursue a private psychoeducational evaluation or a neuropsychological evaluation to get recommendations on the school program and related services that she needs. But I definitely feel it needs to be in a school using her primary language only, which I assume is English.

Please see Janis’s post above. Another person who knows what she is talking about.

I too would suggest a neuropsychological evaluation if you can get one. I went through something similar with my 10 year old. 2 years ago he was in 2nd grade basically unable to read, despite having wonderful teachers and being in a very good resource program since kindergarten. The school psychologist determined him to have a full-scale iq of 75 with no significant difference between his verbal ability and his performance ability and also no learning disabilities.

I worked with an educational therapist and tutored him at home using resources found on this forum. Also I had him evaluated by a psychologist specializing in LD and an audiologist (fortunately my health insurance paid for it). We learned that he has dyslexia, as well as CAPD and ADHD. Also the psychologist did a non-verbal IQ test and found his IQ to be in the average range. She then repeated the WISC and got the same results. I think the difference in the IQ scores may be attributed to 1)how comfortable my son felt with the testers and 2) the remediation we had done in the time between the first IQ test and the 2nd.

Today he is finishing 4th grade and reading at a solid 3rd grade level. Fluency continues to be a problem and we are working on that.
[Modified by: edhmom (edhmom) on May 07, 2006 02:25 PM]

Met with the school psych last week, she mentioned that the IQ test administered in kindergarten is “more forgiving” and that the IQ test done Oct 2005 scored 79. She confirmed that there is an auditory processing problem.

Today, appointment with pediatrician for referral to neurologist.

I have seen suggestions for both neurologist & neuropsychologist? But what is the difference?

double posted
[Modified by: Rayana’s Mom (Rayana’s Mom) on May 08, 2006 09:14 AM]

[quote]Met with the school psych last week, she mentioned that the IQ test administered in kindergarten is “more forgiving” and that the IQ test done Oct 2005 scored 79. She confirmed that there is an auditory processing problem.

Today, appointment with pediatrician for referral to neurologist.

I have seen suggestions for both neurologist & neuropsychologist? But what is the difference?[/quote]

(Thanks,Victoria, the feeling is mutual, of course!)

She doesn’t exactly have an LD profile, to be honest. She is pretty consistent across the board. How much of that is ADHD influenced and how much is just general ability is impossible to say without further testing. A neurologist is a medical doctor who can diagnose ADHD and prescribe meds or diagnose other brain related disorders. It’s okay to go to one if you are questioning her ADHD diagnosis or medications. But what I was recommending is a neuropsychologist who can test her learning abilities and make recommendations for therapy to help her in school and learning and to determine the appropriate educational placement. They will do a much more thorough evaluation than the school did.

Incidentally, you can raise IQ. You can use something like Audiblox, for one example, and I’d recommend getting “How to Increase Your Child’s Verbal Intelligence” by McGuinness.

Yep, what Janis says.

If your daughter has an auditory processing problem, I would want her privately tested by an audiologist and a speech/language pathologist.

Remember that IQ scores are not absolutes and can vary greatly from one test to another. Personally, I am not fond of the WISC-IV being used with children who have language disorders because they seem to score so low on the test, and the schools use these low scores to keep the kids from qualifying for services. My son has received five different IQ tests, and he scored 17 points lower on the WISC, than on any other test.

What type of tutoring are you getting your daughter? Some tutoring is helpful but the best tutoring is from a place that has a lot of experience with it. I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 8 or 9 when I was in the second grade and my parents and gaurdians immediately signed me up for a tutoring place here in charlotte, nc called comprehensice educational services… i did this 2 days a week for an hour each time…. let me tell you the help that i recieved from this place was amazing… they taught me proper study skills that would work for me and also proper note taking skills that worked for me when nothing else would…. another thing that i started doing was a daily progress report… if you interested in this i have made one that i can email you… it is exactly just like the one i had when i was in school…. i try encouraging parents on here that the are doing a good job especailly since i got such good care and help from my family… so if you want i can let you know of somethings that worked for me when i was that age and on through school…. i just graduated from queens university here in charlotte, nc with a BA IN PSYCHOLOGY…. It is possible and it can be done just keep thinking ahead and allways depend on those in here… this is a wonderful place to get ideas and support… my email is [email protected]… i am more than glad to help at anytime….