Why is it always the teachers fault?

I don’t know if there is a natural link between not taking responsibility and LD behaviors. I do know it is easy to protect LD kids and not make them take responsibility because they have so much more to deal with than most kids. One of my colleagues told me that was her biggest regret with her LD daughter. I have tried to keep it in mind with my own 11 year old LD son. For example, he is expected to take spanish once a week in his parochial school. He is not good at it and does not like it. He was flunking at one point partly because he had not turned in his homeowrk. I told him if he didn’t pull his grade up to C by the time the marking period ended, he would be facing spanish camp instead of boy scout camp next summer. I made clear to him it wasn’t his test grades alone that got him into this bind. (Of course it did not help that he told his spanish teacher he didn’t have time because he was on the basketball team!!)

Now his teacher knows he is LD and makes some allowances for him. But bottom line is he can get a C if he puts one foot in front of the other and does what he is supposed to do even if he doesn’t like it. Tests are only 1/3 of his grade.

He got a C barely and now we’re into the next quarter. Same rules are in place.

Beth

I think some of it is “learned helplessness.” That’s why helping them to advocate for themselves and using some of Mel Levine’s approaches to demystify learning disabilities can be so helpful.
Independence is a process and part of that is taking responsibility and bearing the consequences. Has anyone enforced consequences or is the LD always an excuse?
My own son just received two Ds on his mid-terms despite thinking he had studied enough for the tests. What did he learn? That his current study strategies are ineffective and that there are people around him who will help him if he asks for help. In the past, he would have blamed the teacher - they didn’t put the test on the computer so that I can listen to it, or they didn’t give me the chapters on a CD - but know he has those accommodations so he knows he has to use them. There’s nobody else to blame.
He’s learning the lesson and since he’s a freshman, he has time to implement it.

I hate to say it, but I think there is, sometimes, a link between the Sped label and not taking responsibility for behavior.
We teach it.
Our policies reinforce it.

We often learn responsibility from consequences from mistakes. In the special ed world, we lower expectations and tend to remove consequences. In some schools, it extends to behavior; I’ve taught where my LD or BD guys would get “verbal reprimands” for, say, the first six trips to the office, pretty much regardless of whether it was extorting money in the bathrooms or skipping classes or dsirupting a class… then the seventh time it’s a trip home for a few days. Hey, that way we keep the days suspended under ten, so we don’t have to have that hearing stuff. Those folks learned about not being responsible **well.**

If you can be very consistent with the things you can control, then you can sometimes teach a little of that responsibilty. Many of these folks have acquired a genuine “external locus of control” — they really *do* believe that things happen to them, and they don’t have a lot of control over any of it. Again, it’s valid learning — it’s really what they experience. Actually pointing out that “we reviewed this in class, you participated and listened, and you got a C on that quiz ***because you had learned it***” can be a minor revelataion. (This also left to me the responsibility of having a curriculum that they could learn from *and* get passing grades.)

I had tiny weekly quizzes and daily grades for that reason. They were straightforward application questions of terms in the content area subjects — class would open with a 10-minute review assignment. In World Geography it would be “Find 10 capes in North America — p. 23 in your Atlas.”
This also made it a lot easier to document stuff in my little 3-ring binder with daily behavior notes — “M. K. tardy, refused option to complete assignment after class,” “PJ on time, completed quiz” or whatever, which comes in very handy when they or their parents maintain that they’re model students.

I agree with all that there tends to be too much external blaming and not enough acceptance of responsibility by parents and students. This is true not only of special ed students but also of many regular ed students. Time Magazine has an article this week on obnoxious parents and why teachers can’t stand them. On the other hand, I found this teacher’s post a bit disturbing because it sounded so angry and because the teacher’s seeming belief that these are just rotten kids. It is important to remember that the expectations of teachers and parents have a lot to do with what children believe about their own abilities. If we expect the worst, our expectations are generally met.

I do not think that these are “rotten kids.” I don’t think I would have even wrote this if I thought they were. I worry about them constantly, and wish that they could grow up….most of mine are 17-21 years old. I fear what is going to happen to them in the future, when and if the graduate. I don’t want the cycle of dependency on the “system” to continue. I want them to be able to make decisions and accept consequences on their own.

To the Guest who was concerned that the teacher sounded angry — tell me, when was the last time you worked full-time in a classroom? A special-ed classroom? It’s easy to stand outside and criticize people for sounding angry. I suggest quite seriously that you sign up as a substitute teacher in your local area and let it be known you will sub in high school special ed classes. After you’ve done a week, then I hope you will be a lot more angry than the first poster. People *should* be angry about the situations that are allowed to go on in schools. There is far too much complacency and happy talk and not rocking the boat, far too little effort for change.

And s/he got to the core of the problem, too. Those behavior patterns are awfully important when school’s over, whether the next step is college or work or whatever. The people who treat life’s situations as an assignment to be completed as quickly as possible so you can get back to socializing tend to have difficulty getting out of jobs which do, unfortunately, reinforce the attitude; in college, they don’t understand why showing up isn’t enough.
and it’s not that the kids are “rotten.” Again, they have *learned* this stuff — they have been *taught* it.

Victoria,

You’ve posted quite often about your own rather negative experiences as a classroom teacher. You were wise enough to remove yourself from that situation because it was not a good fit and not the best use of your talents. This teacher sounds burnt out to me and I would not want a burnt out teacher in my child’s classroom. No one expects a teacher to remain in a constant state of equilibrium. Nonetheless, a teacher who is so burnt out that he or she feels that the students are hopeless and blameworthy ought to take a step back. Childen (everyone, really) tend to become what we believe they are. If we think they are lazy and deliberately refusing to do work they are entirely capable of accomplishing, they’ll not only look that way to us, but to themselves. Sue gets it — you don’t. These kids have been taught to act this way and you can’t blame it all on the parents or “the system.” Teachers have a role too. My child has had the misfortune of having a teacher who believed that mocking a 6 year old child was the way to get him to work. He has also been truly fortunate to have other teachers who believed in him, encouraged him and taught him that he is a capable, intelligent person. Sadly, it wasn’t enough for him to hear that at home only. He needed to hear it from the people with whom he spent 6 hours, five days a week. This teacher isn’t giving that message. I think she believes these students are beyond her help. Perhaps by now they are, but imagine if someone had cared sooner.

It is frustrating. I feel that it is okay to vent. I always tell my husband, if I didn’t vent, I would be seeing a psychotherapist.

I am teaching with an excellent second year teacher. She goes home daily in tears. She can’t figure out why she cares more than the kids (5-10 grade LD). She is questioning her choice of the entire teaching profession.

I haven’t been able to figure it out either. I taught early childhood special ed. Now, as the 6-12 LD teacher, I have the same students I had when they were three and four. I had taught my preschoolers to problem solve; be independent; to be proud of themselves for trying hard. Six years later, they do the minimum they can. They use their SLD as an excuse not to have to work hard or try? I hate to ‘blame’ the 2-5 LD teacher but….. what happened to them?

A huge issue and one I grapple with.

There are several factors that are involved.

There is a tendency to learned helplessness. We have small resource groups in elementary school and there is much more opportunity to get help and teachers love to nurture and be mother hens, often.

IDEA mandates that every single thing that happens must be examined under the “is this a manifestaton of the disability” microscope, even issues which are of no relation and the student has the intelligence and ability to know better, still we must hold a manifestation determination for everything. We cannot even take action re. truancy in high school until we have done a behavior intervention plan for the truant student who has an IEP. I have not yet found one who is truant due to a disability issue, though it COULD occur. So, we send a message that people who have LD don’t have to measure up to the same standards, about anything. We show them that we do special things for them because they have an IEP and that their rules are a little different, a little more lax….mainly to cover our rear ends.

REcently I have been frustrated with my high school literacy class that is for resource and special day students who cannot pass the literacy portion of the high school exit exam. I use some standardized format materials in an attempt to teach the test taking skills. Yet, my students almost unilaterally will not ever look back in the text (they can read the texts I give to them) to locate and prove answers, instead most of them do a slapdash job of racing through the multiple choice items, guessing or selecting anything that is usually wrong.

Weekly I will pose an oral question to the group after we have read and discussed a paragraph of page long selection. I might ask them to provide the answer to a fairly straight forward comprehension question. When a number of them get it wrong, I might say, look on the page and find it. I look about and 1-2 of 13 are actually focusing on the page, looking for the correct response that is right there in plain literal English. I need to take the time to demand that everyone find it, place their finger under it, while I walk around checking, giving out points for having their finger under the answer.

One fellow took the prize. He did not know a simple answer to a simple question. I suggested he locate it on the page, he continued to look right at me while telling me he could not find it, never once looking at the page. I repeated the instructions and he repeated his, “I can’t find it” while never once looking at the page. I even told him which paragraph and he still maintained he could not find the answer, while never looking for the answer until I would not relent and he realized this would go on until he actually found the answer. He found the answer, of course, in a snap as soon as he looked. This entire exercise was unnecessary and wasteful of precious instructional time.

This is a good 80% of my students, many of whom have good intelligence and oral language. They will not even begin to try to do something that is not glaring them right in the face. It appears to me that they don’t want to have to engage in something that takes a modicum of effort.

This behavior worries me. We must encourage initiative taking, then give help. I have been as guilty as the rest of us.

Yes, students have been taught to act without taking responsibility. That is one of the things people should be angry about.

If it’s the teacher’s fault for feeling strongly about things and even expressing some anger — not to the students but in an appropriate forum among other adults — well, we have laid the blame again and we can get rid of that teacher and all is well; or wait, isn’t that the original problem??

I was always much happier to have my daughter in classes with teachers who cared enough to face a little conflict, whether with students or administration, than with smiling happy-happy people wearing blinders. She liked people with standards a lot better too, and learned a lot more.

I am ANGRY, and I believe that everyone should be. If these kids learn this, who do they learn it from? I think that parents need to stop pacifying their children and learn to think of the future. Your children are yours, take responsibility! I have children of my own, and my children always have consequences for their actions. And for the person who said that I am burnt out, I am not. I care immensely for these students, and as I said earlier, they are all capapble of doing something with their life. I have tried many different strategies, and I will not give up on them. Ask yourself as well, why do so many teachers get burnt out? Do you think maybe it is because they do not feel supported by anyone (parents, administration, students?) How would you feel if you went to work everyday, and never got the reslut that was expected of you, and all everyone ever did was blame you? I know 5 teachers that are quitting this year to do totally different things with their lives. These are wonderful teachers. Sometimes I think that it is the ones who stay that you have to worry about, becuase the ones who REALLY care leave. They can’t handle seeing these children fail everyday, and realizing that noone, including the student, cares.

[quote:38ff52b0ab=”stary_night”]I am ANGRY, and I believe that everyone should be. If these kids learn this, who do they learn it from? [/quote]

They learn it from everyone with whom they interact. That includes teachers, as other teachers have already remarked. I don’t blame you for feeling angry — who wouldn’t? The question is: What are YOU doing to address the problem? You have to address the things over which you actually have control and basically, that is what is going on in your classroom. Let’s hear some of the things you have tried. Perhaps then further suggestions could be made, suggestions that it is possible you have not considered before. You might also consider trying to establish a partnership and dialog with your students and their parents rather than thinking that if you do X, they must do Y and being angry and frustrated when they don’t satisfy your expectations, which they may not have understood in the first place. Here’s a challenge: try thinking positively. Find the good things in your students and build on them. Focus less on ut what they SHOULD be doing and more on what they have managed to accomplish. Have respect for your students and make an effort to understand how their experiences, at home and at school, have brought them to this sad state. It is a lot easier to blame someone than to accept that a complex and unhappy conjunction of events has robbed these students of motivation and that it is a problem that is unlikely to be easily or fully resolved.

Does your boss focus on the things that you have done well at some point in your life, or does he/she ask you to do something and expect it to be done? Of course I believe that focusing on the positive is important; however, a ray of reality has to shine through as well. Sometimes you have to do things that you don’t want to do. Excuses never help anyone…NEVER!! I can guarantee you that, growing up, I had as bad of a life, if not worse as these kids do. If noone would have pushed me to work my butt off and do something with my life, I would have never succeeded. I could make excuses as well, but for me that was not acceptable. I guess you just have to want it.

Well, IDEA is not entirely the friend of the teacher. It is IDEA mandate that we have to consider everything a child with LD does as possibly being a manifestation of their disability. This alone accounts for sending a message to students and parents that it is easier to get off the hook if you have an IEP. This alone creates sometimes a good bit of additional work for us in creating behavior intervention plans for issues we know full well are not related to the LD.

Every item parents advocate for ends up on our plate as something we have to manage, usually in my district, with no additional resources, support, time or assistance. Is it any wonder we sped. teachers groan when faced with advocates, adverserial parents, etc. We know the administration will tell us to do whatever it is without a care about whether we actually CAN do what was asked. They and everyone in our culture seems to pass the buck directly to the classroom teacher.

There are no pat answers as to why the teachers often get the brunt of the blame. There is a dance we recognize as shuffle the buck which commonly takes place and unfortunately for those good teachers caught in it, they represent most often the end of the line.

One quick comment about the learned helplessness that has been bandied a bit here…

While I fully agree there are many parents (regardless of whether their child is Sped or not) who do this, I strongly feel that an equal partner in this has been the schools with their dogged adherance to the failed theorm we know as “social promotion”. This has served less towards building esteem in children than it serves to build esteem in teachers (IMNSHO). Not to worry, NCLB is curing this ill even as we speak.

I don’t post very often because the first time I posted my opinion on a subject prior to having to register it seemed that the poster just wanted people to agree. My intent here is not to place blame in any single place because every situation is unique, and sometimes blame should not be placed on an individual, but a system that allows children to fail, loose self-esteem, and quit before they even get started.

My child struggled with various academic and non-academic areas all of his life. He entered school and I knew the problem was greater than just a quirky child. Unfortunately, the system did not choose to aid those who were struggling until it was too late. My stance was that my child cannot read and is not being taught to write. The school system (through the mouth of the teacher) was that his progress it was developmentally appropriate. Having a family history of dyslexia, I knew it was not. The red flags were waving everywhere.

It wasn’t until three years of trying to help at home, tutoring, and pressuring the school system for help that any help was given. My son was finally evaluated.

By that point, my child was tired of trying to perform when his needs were not being met to adequately teach him the skills of reading and writing. His self-esteem was rock bottom. He knew he couldn’t perform. He was tired of being told that he could do it if he just tried harder. He knew that he could do it - if he knew what it was. He was a child that so much wanted to please, but he could never do that. He felt helpless and unmotivated. He did not know how to help himself and was not being shown how.

Fast forward, after years of working with my son to overcome the helplessness and years of specialized teaching and accommodations, my child is now starting to understand his role in learning. He has learned how to advocate for himself better. He has learned what trying your hardest means and what is expected. He even made honor roll. It has come by being praised for his small (even though not completely correct) accomplishments along the way. It has come be direct instructions from teachers and parents about how to study, how long to try before asking for help, etc.

If my child did not get the necessary teaching required and the necessary praise and guidance, I’m sure he would be one of the students sitting in the pull-out class in high school feeling they are biding their time and will end up with dead end job (if they can keep it). So, if the system, the teachers, the parents, the friends were not able to help by now, why care.

Unfortunately for the original poster, I feel that you have an extreme challenge before you. I admire you for persevering in such a thankless position. Remember, at one time, each of these young adults was a shining star until their light faded. Each one faded for a different reason. If it is not their fault, it cannot be their failure once again. Good luck.

As the frustrated and sometimes angry mother of a frustrated and sometimes angry LD child, I support stary_night. Yes, my child has difficulties but SHE must learn ways to cope and compensate. She has to write down her assignments in her planner, she has to do her homework, she has to turn her work in, she has to ask for help or clarification or a study guide or whatever she needs. There are consequences at home,as well as at school, if she doesn’t do these things.

The horrible times were teachers who didn’t care and got angry if they were asked for a headstart on an assignment or a study guide. Or treated her as subIQ because of the LD.

Most of the parents on these boards are the ones who tend to be aware and focused on solutions for their child but many, many are not. Just give’em a C and they are happy. Its a lot easier for the teacher to just hand out C’s. Go back and look at posts from parents who are angry when their child does not receive a good grade for work that is not handed in!

But do many parents want something for nothing for their child -YUP! Do they teach that ethic to their children -YUP. This year one fifth grade boy challenged his teacher with “Do you know who my father is?” His father is our board president. She was asking him for his classwork. There are a whole lot of students/parents with Entitled written on their foreheads.

yes, your child is entitled to an education but no one said it was going to be a free ride. And one of the hardest things in my child’s education was that she was responsible for her learning. Sitting back and saying ‘I don’t get it’ is not taking responsibility. Asking a specific question that focus on what she dosn’t understand is taking responsibility.

DAD, you appear to be a believer that NCLB will fix what is wrong with education. That is at once wishful thinking and naive thinking.

The issue of promotion/retention is tricky. I used to be more in favor of retention, then I got to high school and found that it is true, kids who have been retained are more likely to drop out and sometimes they are pretty good and capable kids, but they turn 18, move out and quit after their junior year. Usually they have family problems and things just get too thick for them. Some can pass tests just fine, they just can’t get through their difficulties with parents and family.

There are good reasons to limit retention. Social promotion, as you call it has its points. Perhaps not having 16 year old boys sitting with 13 year old boys and girls is one of the several reasons that we engage in what you term social retention.

As we discuss this NCLB is not fixing it, we have created additional hoops and are jumping kiddoes through them because there just is not enough research to support retention. We scarcely retain any more kids than we ever did.

There is not a single credible study which can show social promotion achieves what its supporters claim - build esteem in children. What it does do is teach children very surely that they do not have to expend any effort to advance. This only works until they reach high school where the system changes suddenly to credits needed to graduate. Interestingly enough, drop out ratyes have NOT reduced since the inception of social promotion, they have actually remained static due to a shifting of portions of the population served under IDEA out of pass/fail academic tracks into alternative assessment programs (which is in itself a form of social promotion). In fact, for certain sub groups of the population, most notably Black males it has increased (this was effectively masked because the stats derived did not account for those incarcerated).

I agree that simple retention does not work either. Why people assume those are the only two choices is beyond me. What should happen is retention when basic benchmarks are failed, at which point the child has a proper evaluation to determine why they have plateaued and appropriate response services offered.

With simple retention (as was commonly practiced half a century ago, we simply kept hammering at the problem, wondering why we could not get the bolt tight. With social promotion we decided the bolt did not need tightened to begin with and moved on to the next. Neither solves the problem of the loose bolt.

You are correct that I believe NCLB will fix some of what is wrong with the current state of public education. I assure, I am not naive in my reasoning nor wishfully thinking. As the ratchet gets cranked harder on the allowable loss percentage, schools will be forced to reinvent how they serve the student population, especially those children who have LD’s. I look forward to the day when we finally throw the dirt on that most horrible gatekeeper we now know as the “2-year discrepancy formula” Reliance upon this to limit the students who merit extra attention when they are young enough to hold the greatest chance of remediation.

Using other measures other than the ones commonly cited, we can see the results of approx. 30 years of the schools creatively side-stepping IDEA and socially promoting students for the benefit of the teachers’ esteem. The number of students entering college needing to take at least 1 remedial class has crept slowly nationwide and the number needing 3 remedial classes has grown. Part of this to be sure is market related - the job opportunities for a high school grad which will pay a decent wage are declining, forcing more people on to high education. But that is not the whole explanation for the situation.

If public education is to survive, it must successfully adapt to the changes needs of society. One change is to become far more proative in teaching ALL children. When I was a younger man, working in a pizza shop, I asked the owner one day why he hired so many people upon first interview when so many were poor employees and either quit shortly after or else had to be let go. His response was “all I need are warm bodies in here, if you throw enough s#!t against the wall some of it sticks”. That is what I believe NCLB means to end.

When Congress adapted the ADA for education, their intent was that all children would get services appropriate to their needs which would help them maximize whatever potential they had. A small percentage will plateau extremely early and appropriate services will eman life skills, etc. But the schools continued to use Sped as a dumping ground for kids who had mild LD’s but were mishandled into becoming bhavioral problems (and yes I realize fully that very often the parents shared equal blame in this; that doesn’t excuse the schools for their part in the failure). Congress and the Courts on several occasions tweaked the laws to clarify issues that were “fuzzy”, including the big update we call IDEA 97. I see NCLB as a further extension of the process. Where IDEA 97 addressed LRE (to stop the dumping process), NCLB demads that basic benchmarks be established and measured across the board to confirm the lip service the schools have given when asked what they have achieved.

We are in for some rough road ahead as the States scramble to comply with the sudden changes. I believe Congress’ bipartisan effort is absolutely appropriate and necessary if we are to advance the public education system to meet the needs of our society in the coming century. I see 2008 as the watershed year, when the percentage of allowable loss has seen all the “easy meat” gleaned and we get down to those students who have been short-changed by social promotion in years past.

Many of the problems with NCLB are not actually the fault of the Federal Law, but in the way the States are implimenting it. When it boils down, there is absolutely nothing wrong with setting floors of achievement for students to reach to be considered promoted. European schools have been doing this for years and on average their children out perform ours. Indeed, the entire reason public education was started was to provide a basic sense of literacy in immingrant populations to allow them to mesh well enough with our society that they could participate in it.

The cost of failing to impart basic literacy has a secondary cost in that those who fail to achieve it are disproportionally un public assistance or incarcerated. If the logic which explains why this would be so escapes you we can discuss it in greater lengths. The children hit hardest by this are those who have the most to gain and the least resources availabe to them - the inner city minorities and the rural poor. It is not right in any sense that the system has failed them as it has.

One thing I disagree with about the implimentation of NCLB is that in many areas it is the teachers who will face the first brunt. While I know there are more than a few teachers who deserve whatever comes there way, I strongly feel that in more cases the responsibility falls upon management for failure to provide adequate support for the classrooms, failure to develope and impliment truly appropriate programming, and a ready willingness to sweep the dirt under the carpet to preserve their professional esteem.

Overall tho, I do think NCLB is a good law and will bring meaning change for the good to our schools. I know that you disagree with me Anitya, and I understand why. It is going to mean a lot more work for a great many teachers and administrators before improvements become apparant.

Hi,

You should read the next post down from yours, and the replies; it brings up some of the same issues you raised, but it all relates back to these kids’ basic frustrations with not being able to do the work. That’s right, I said “not able” and for those who were rightly diagnosed and identified, it is beyond their capability to do the work, at least as things stand right now. And some of it IS the teacher’s fault, though probably not yours specifically — and the system that is behind the teacher even more so, unfortunately.

Taking responsibility is not going to teach them to read, a TEACHER has to do that. If you want some ideas on how to do that, read the post titled “Teaching HS students to read?” It can be done, but no one said it is easy, and this is what they need more than anything else in life, after all; so even if you have to tough it out to make it happen, as so many of us do (I’m with you, Shay!) they will know you are doing it because you care about them.

I teach RSP in an LAUSD elementary school right now, and my mission is to get them reading AT GRADE LEVEL, before they leave here. I had to fight like the dickens to get an effective intervention program in place, but I did it after 3 years of getting nowhere, and watching our AYP scores drop for two years in a row. This year, I said, if we don’t bring them up this year, we are all sunk, so why don’t you let me try my proven program, and we’ll see where we are next year? What do we have to lose? I showed them the research, and this time, they listened…

My kids, and the ones in the SDC, are the ones dragging own the whole school’s scores, of course, so that’s part of why they are giving it a chance. They are even letting me work with two of the lowest SDC students, though that is not usually done… My program is an intensive 3 month one-to-one program that strengthens their auditory processing (phonological processing in one to five sound chunks), visual processing and memory skills. After that is over I continue in small groups (no more than 3-4 students) teaching them the rest of the “code” up through multi-syllable words.

I know this method works because I use it in my Ed. Therapy practice, but it isn’t often you can get such good programs into public schools, more’s the pity. And that is why we (schools in general/special ed in particular) and the kids are in such a pickle. I’ve heard it said that our public schools are at least 10 years behind the current research. In my experience it’s more like 20… Anyway, all this goes to say that if you care enough, you will find a way to teach those kids what they need to know… someone has to! Shop around until you find the best programs you can find, get trained, and get started! Good luck!

Check out this editorial from David Broder in today’s Washington Post. I’ve included excerpts :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48684-2005Feb23.html

A Model For High Schools

By David S. Broder
Thursday, February 24, 2005; Page A21

PORTLAND, Ore. — The assigned readings for Aurora del Val’s students last week were sections of the writings of Greek philosopher Plato and black nationalist Malcolm X. For 90 minutes her 14 young scholars wrestled verbally with twin paradoxes: Plato’s insistence that prisoners in a cave might find the shadows on the wall more real than the outside world, and Malcolm’s declaration that his intellectual freedom began when he entered prison.

Prodded by their teacher’s questions, the students grappled with the issues of appearance and reality, freedom and slavery, like thousands of college students before them. The oddity is that these teenagers were all high school dropouts, kids who had walked out or been tossed out of their previous schools, kids with attitude problems, behavioral problems, drug or alcohol problems, kids whose teachers and families had often marked them off as hopeless losers …

… The Gateway experiment suggests that even for the hardest cases — teenagers with few credits, low grade-point averages and a host of personal problems — the challenge of a tough curriculum, backed by skillful teaching in small classes and plenty of personal counseling, can be a path to success.

Each new cohort of 20 or fewer students spends a semester together, with intensive focus on basic skills, including study techniques and classroom communication. Bonding during this term builds mutual support and helps motivate students to keep up their work. “They’ve become like family,” del Val said of her students. “They are real supportive of each other.”

Shoshie, you are too kind. The schools are more like fifty to eighty years behind the research, and in fact have been fighting a running battle *against* scientific research for most of that time.
Read “Why Johnny Can’t Read”, published in 1956; OK, it’s rather polemic, but after a lifetime of conflict with people who refuse to see facts one does get fed up.
WJCR was published in 1956 and in it the author talks about reading research — and the conclusions he comes to are (drum roll) exactly the same as the huge and expensive National Reading Panel over forty years later.

Shoshie, I would love to talk with you more about what you do. We communicated several years ago. Now I teach high school RSP.

I would like to add for my own benefit that many times these youngsters who display “learned helplessness” do know how to read. I just got scores yesterday on one yesterday who reads at 8th grade level and is in 9th grade RSP English class, she does little. Another, reads at 8th-9th grade level, but does little.

We do have a number of youngsters who appear to choose not to do assignments that are modified to well within their range of developed abilities. None of my classes demand levels of reading beyond what the students can manage.

I see this same phenomena in regular ed. classes among the nonLD population of, oftentimes, students who have passed the exit exam and are at or near grade level. They appear to simply choose to do zero work. It is alarming the number of students who take this route.

My RSP classes are taught to accomodate and modify to my student’s level. I certainlly know better than to demand a student read something he or she cannot read.

While it is reasonable to suspect that students who choose not to work, may do so because the work is too difficult, this is often not the case. I am the parent of a GATE (not college student) who blew off high school, simply didn’t bother to turn in assignments and was graded accordingly. College is going better, but then he likes it and I can withdraw $$$ support if grades are not acceptable.

I am a parent.

I do not blame teachers as a group. As a group, we have had good teachers. There are however certain “bad apples” that I do individually blame.

Perhaps I am reading this wrong but, stary-night, are you suggesting ALL parents are like this? Certainly that is too broad of a brush.

I blame the whole system but I have no idea how to fix it.

I would like to add that *the system* has worn me down. I am tired of teachers not even realizing my two children have IEPs much less what they say. I am tired of fighting for proven instructial programs. I don’t feel like I have the energy to both interact with the school and the outside tutors we *need* to use since “the gap” in both cases continues to widen.

And my children are only in middle school.

Talk about learned helplessness.

I hope I can continue to push my children to excell when they get into high school but I can certainly understand parents who run out of energy long before that.

Barb

[quote:47697c49c9=”bgb”]I am a parent.

I do not blame teachers as a group. As a group, we have had good teachers. There are however certain “bad apples” that I do individually blame.

Perhaps I am reading this wrong but, stary-night, are you suggesting ALL parents are like this? Certainly that is too broad of a brush.

I blame the whole system but I have no idea how to fix it.

I would like to add that *the system* has worn me down. I am tired of teachers not even realizing my two children have IEPs much less what they say. I am tired of fighting for proven instructial programs. I don’t feel like I have the energy to both interact with the school and the outside tutors we *need* to use since “the gap” in both cases continues to widen.

And my children are only in middle school.

Talk about learned helplessness.

I hope I can continue to push my children to excell when they get into high school but I can certainly understand parents who run out of energy long before that.

Barb[/quote]

Barb, your experiences are not unique. Unfortunatley it is not much better for non LD kids.

I would would stick with the tutors because at least you have some choice in who tutors your kids.

I do have a solution. It’s called teacher accountibility. Sadly however, it is nearly impossible to fire a tenured teacher.

[quote:3ce97109f4=”bgb”]I am a parent.

I do not blame teachers as a group. As a group, we have had good teachers. There are however certain “bad apples” that I do individually blame.

Perhaps I am reading this wrong but, stary-night, are you suggesting ALL parents are like this? Certainly that is too broad of a brush.

I blame the whole system but I have no idea how to fix it.

Barb[/quote]

I do blame teachers nearly entirely. They are large in numbers. If they treated their jobs like a profession instead of a cushy part time job they could police themselves and establish some credible standards.

I rather like the advice that Atticus Finch gives to his 6 year old daughter, Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird:

“You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view—until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.”

Yes, I can recall the days I had pat answers for what teachers should do, needed to do, what worked, what good teachers did, any number of things looked relatively simple from a distance. But, once I got into the skin of being a teacher and walked around for about 14 years, I came to appreciate the shortcomings of simplistic opinions and advice.

Your comment is insulting to the many teachers who work many hours a week beyond what is required, evenings and even weekends to give their students their all. I do not appreciate it.

[quote:d3d118cb5d=”Anitya”]I rather like the advice that Atticus Finch gives to his 6 year old daughter, Scout in To Kill a Mockingbird:

“You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view—until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.”

Yes, I can recall the days I had pat answers for what teachers should do, needed to do, what worked, what good teachers did, any number of things looked relatively simple from a distance. But, once I got into the skin of being a teacher and walked around for about 14 years, I came to appreciate the shortcomings of simplistic opinions and advice.

Your comment is insulting to the many teachers who work many hours a week beyond what is required, evenings and even weekends to give their students their all. I do not appreciate it.[/quote]

Hey Anitya, like they say, “reality bites”. I have seen first hand the good work good teachers do in a bad system. Oh, and BTW, there is another old saying. “If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem.

I personally think that simple solutions are often the best. In the real wrold when an employee can’t cut the muster they get fired.

I also wonder where all these hard working teachers work. Could it be Fantasy Island?

I suppose if you want to feel insuted that is your perogative but I for one along with students and other tax payers feel cheated. Personally I think you are in a world of denial. I say that because of what I have seen with my own eyes and from the comments I read of the parenting forums on this site.

While I would agree that there are difficult parents and students, I cannot believe that they are the reason for our failing educational system especially when every study shows that teachers are woefully inadequate.

Well, if you come to this place here where teachers are trying to improve their teaching, share effective methods, help parents, and answer people’s questions, and they spend time and energy doing it — and then you tell all the hard-working teachers here that we are useless lazy stupid uneducated slobs — gee, that attitude could explain why a lot of the good teachers leave and you’re left with the ones who don’t listen and don’t care. If you ever do manage get a good teacher in your school, a year of your attitude will get rid of him/her pretty effectively. Instead of name-calling, you could try finding some positive way to improve the situation. It’s easy to call people names, a lot harder to get out and do a job and make changes

[quote:fae3b81600=”victoria”]Well, if you come to this place here where teachers are trying to improve their teaching, share effective methods, help parents, and answer people’s questions, and they spend time and energy doing it — and then you tell all the hard-working teachers here that we are useless lazy stupid uneducated slobs — gee, that attitude could explain why a lot of the good teachers leave and you’re left with the ones who don’t listen and don’t care. If you ever do manage get a good teacher in your school, a year of your attitude will get rid of him/her pretty effectively. Instead of name-calling, you could try finding some positive way to improve the situation. It’s easy to call people names, a lot harder to get out and do a job and make changes[/quote]

I don’t see any name calling here other than your accusations. I do think the term hardworking teacher is a bit of an oxymoron being that teaching is at best for most teachers I am aware of a part time job.

I think the reason good teacher don’t last as you say is because people with a high level of professional integrity find mediocrity difficult to be around.

Well I guess we are back to blame the student and the parents. That is like the plumber blaming the customer because he can’t fix the faucet.

Like I said before I can post study after study that shows the problem is teachers not students.

This thread wasnot about teachers accepting resposiblity for their failings. It was about what too many teachers do best - blame everyone!

Post them!

I will consider you to be what you appear to be: a fringe parent who is part of the problem, since you clearly are not part of the solution.

Let me see, what did I do for the last 24 hours? Hmmm. Last night, after dinner, I spent a good 2 hours working on lessons, creating materials. Then I read two professional articles, interviews, actually, that I found on a website dealing with teaching reading.

This morning I got to school around 7:00. I taught all day. Then I worked in my room until 5:45 and here I am at home. I have had my dinner and I am thinking of taking the evening off.

While I know many professionals put in long days, I scarcely think the 10 or more hour days I often work constitute part time employment, but then I am a special ed. teacher and I do several hours of PAPERWORK each week, in addition to adapting and modifying materials for my classes, since I have no budget.

Shame on me for being such a lazy person I actually take a little time for myself each day.

I am a parent not a teacher but I find it interesting that there is this myth of part time teachers. The teachers my three children have had have all been hard working with one notable exception. This was my son’s first special ed teacher and she was pretty incompetent too. I was pretty vocal and helped get rid of her. Unfort. because of tenure, this just meant she ended up at another school, while my school hired a very good teacher. But, in my experience, such teachers are the exception and not the rule.

My husband thought seriously about changing careers to become a high school science teacher. The big thing that held him back was the hours teachers put in, particularly when they are new.

Beth

I am also a parent. I agree with Beth Fl. The majority of my children’s teachers were extremely hard working and caring. That has never been an issue. One teacher even tutored a group of kids after school for free. The teacher initiated this, not the parents. I haven’t seen any full-time teachers working part-time. They are always working over-time.

Anitya,

I’d guess that “guest” is not even a parent.

This board has had…issues…in the past with agenda trolls.

Barb

I truly appreciate the support from parents. Thanks to both of you for your comments.

Let me assure you that there are lazy and incompetent people everywhere and there are lazy, incompetent people in the business world who have not tenure who do not get fired, either. I worked for one once. Horrible experience and he was not removed for years.

When teachers are a disaster it is a glaring sight. When a manager is buried in a company that is trying to turn a profit, no one cares but the upper management when they see their numbers slipping.

So many teachers in my high school work very hard. Math teachers all offer after school tutoring. Teachers mentor clubs for nothing, no extra pay for taking on that assignment.

Most are sincere and dedicated people.

Learning to teach is a tough road. A few people are naturals from the get-go. Most of us need a few years of experience to learn. I am one of those. I have become a decent teacher, I am not absolutely stellar, but I get my job done and will always stop to help a student in need and give support. I care about every student who comes through my door. I am not the exception, I am not unusual and I am not super teacher. I just try to do my job and I invest a great deal of time into it.

Fortunately my youngest is a senior in high school now and I have much more time to invest than I did 10 years ago when I was teaching fulltime and raising children. In those days I was much less likely to go into work on Saturdays and to work past 5:00 in my classroom, for obvious reasons. No teacher should be expected by any parent to sacrifice their own children for someone else’s children. All things in balance.

What is an agenda troll? If it is someone who places the welfare of disabled above the lame complaints of the employees of today’s educational system then I guess I am an agenda troll.

I think it is pretty simple. We have a failing educational system. the fact that there are pockets of excellence within the otherwise abysmal quagmire of the apologists is proof that the dismal state of our educational system has nothing to do with the students and everything to do with the teachers.

Kids are kids and they do make the “my dog ate my homework excuse” but when teachers make similar excuses it is pretty pathetic.

Teachers are quick to point out that they are credentialed professionals. It is high time they start performing like professionals.

What is a troll?

SOmeone who posts incendiary anonymous posts.

Venting has its place — but at a pretty early point it fails to be constructive. I wholeheartedly agree that the education systems in many specific locations are warped beyond repair, and are utterly past being self-correcting systems.

However, this is a forum about “teaching students with LD.” It’s not “a place to spout invectives about how bad teachers are.” I’m sure that forum exists; it’s just not here.

[quote:5bb3bbaa5d=”Sue”]What is a troll?

SOmeone who posts incendiary anonymous posts.

Venting has its place — but at a pretty early point it fails to be constructive. I wholeheartedly agree that the education systems in many specific locations are warped beyond repair, and are utterly past being self-correcting systems.

However, this is a forum about “teaching students with LD.” It’s not “a place to spout invectives about how bad teachers are.” I’m sure that forum exists; it’s just not here.[/quote]

With all due respect I would also think that this is not a forum for trashing parents and students but that is what this thread started out as. All one needs to do is read the parenting a child with LD or ADHD and when will find example after example after example of a school not living up to its responsibility or some teacher misconduct. These are not isolated incidents. They are often the rule not the exceptions.

Having an LD or ADHD child is an uphill battle for parents but adding the impediment of our failing educational system makes an uphill battle a losing battle.

When the vary people who are part of the problem start blaming the victims I am inclined to take them to task ask them the hard questions and show them some reality.

I do believe “guest” is a parent. I suspect she or he has had some very unpleasant experiences and may feel some justification for trashing teachers. While some teachers may merit trashing, all teachers do NOT merit trashing.

“Guest” laments teachers who trash parents. “Guest” just turns the table when he/she trashes teachers. All teachers are imcompetent troublemakers about as frequently as all parents are incompetent troublemakers.

As a parent and a teacher, I feel I am qualified to discuss both groups of folks. Parents do have to contend with difficult teachers. I have been there, I work with some myself. This is true and while I tend to support and defend my colleagues because I walk in their mocassins and therefore KNOW through direct firsthand experience what teaching is about, the trials, the challenges, the joys…..I know how stressful it is to be expected to be able to do, all day long, multiple tasks at the same time, as we in special education do. I know how intensely tiring a profession that demands constant vigilance every moment, having to be on and teaching, managing behavior, directing students and individualizing. I doubt “Guest” has ever tried to do this and it is so very easy to criticize what you have never done.

As teachers we do contend at times with unreasonable parents who make judgements that are not inline with our ideas about what is best for their child. We are teachers and we are also parents and we have all seen parents abuse their children physically and emotionally. It is tragic.

Then there is the marginal behavior that is destructive to the child over time that really does not legally constitute abuse: the short, skinny boy whose demanding, college football coach father wants an athete for a son and seems to take his son’t lack of athletic prowess personally and then resorts to taking it out on the child ,verbally and in his expectations.

Or, the mother and father who have a damaged relationship that is very unhealthy, who fight loudly, sometimes physically…rocking their child’s security. The games a parent in a bad marriage may play that involve placing the blame for the failed relationship on the child who is innocent and caught in the middle.

There are so many ways we parents can say and do things that can negatively impact our children. Most of us are not particularly guilty and we do our best, look out for our children, etc.

But, when a frustrated teacher feels blocked from doing her job as well as she might because of stubborness or “blindness” on the part of a parent, or a parent puts her particular need above her child’s and turns a blind eye to the physical discomfort her child is in because of her attachment to a foolish hope and desire………I have little patience with situations like these. And, I am not sharing any experience my 17 years in sped. has not brought before my eyes.

If a parent expresses frustration with a particular situation, this is not directed at all parents. But, “Guest” we are really weary of having you and others like you angrily jump all over us every time we present a situation that paints a picture of a parent less than ideally. The real world out there is not ideal and some folks come up short.

You have heard this before. There is a process for credentialling teachers, these days we are fingerprinted, too. It is not a perfect process and it does not catch all bad apples. Anyone with healthy biology can have a baby, anybody.

“Guest” is not teacher bashing. Facts are facts, so it seems pretty disingenuous on your part to be passing the buck to the parents.

As for my experiences with teachers and my kids I would say they had many poor teachers, some decent ones, some who should be in jail, and 1 exceptional one. He was a music teacher. I was also a close personal friend of the elementary principal. This man has a doctorate in education. He told me that most of the teacher’s in my kid’s school were unfit to teach. I never had any run ins with these people and we made sure not to rock the boat for our kid’s sake. Being that we have smart kids we had to let them know that most people didn’t act like their teachers in that most professionals don’t play games, use drugs and alcohol and put children down so they can feel important. I figured our school was just a toxic school but I was assured by our principal our school was par for the course.

Here are some facts about teacher quality. Let’s face facts the best and the brightest are not becoming teachers. The following proves that. You may want to call this teacher bashing but it is not. I am merely presenting the facts and setting the record straight.

© 2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

Several weeks ago, my column “Educational ineptitude” was about the sorry state of teacher quality and concluded that while teacher ineptitude is neither flattering nor comfortable to confront, confront it we must if we’re to do anything about our sorry state of education.

The situation is not pretty. Philadelphia schools are typical of poor-quality, big-city schools. Susan Snyder, Philadelphia Inquirer staff writer, in her article “District to Help Teachers Pass Test” (March 24, 2004) reported “that half of the district’s 690 middle school teachers who took exams in math, English, social studies and science in September and November failed.” Other test results haven’t been released; Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell said he understands “concerns that releasing the data could subject teachers to humiliation …”

The unflattering fact that we must own up to is that many, perhaps most, of those who choose teaching as a profession represent the very bottom of the academic barrel. Let’s look at it.

The National Center for Education Statistics compiles loads of statistics on education. The NCES “Digest of Education Statistics” Table 136 shows average SAT scores by student characteristics for 2001. Students who select education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any major (964). Math majors have the highest (1174).

It’s the same story when education majors finish college and take tests for admission to graduate schools. In the case of the Graduate Record Examination, education majors have an average score that’s the lowest (467) of all majors except for sociology majors (434). Putting this in perspective, math majors score the highest (720), followed closely by economics in third place (625).

It’s roughly the same story for students taking the LSAT for admission to law schools where the possible scores range between 120 and 180. Out of 29 majors, education majors ranked 26th, averaging a score of 148. Physics-math majors came in first with a 158 score and economics majors third with 155. Readers can readily obtain this information by a Google search using the words “GRE major” and “LSAT major.”

Though my column criticized teachers, I was pleasantly surprised and encouraged by the responses. Many teachers sent letters saying their experiences mirrored exactly what I reported. Quite a few wrote of horror stories of dealing with incompetent colleagues and administrators. There were also some fairly angry letters accusing me of “bashing teachers” and demanding an apology for doing so. The fact of the matter is that there are many excellent, competent and dedicated teachers often working in systems that reward incompetence and slovenliness and penalize excellence and dedication.

Our nation has a serious education problem that easily threatens our future well-being. Corrective action requires that we acknowledge and correct deficiencies no matter how painful and embarrassing they might be. A good start in that direction is to examine successful teacher-training programs and see if we have the guts to imitate them.

Hillsdale College in Michigan manages Hillsdale Academy, a K-12 primary and secondary school. At Hillsdale, no students major in education. Students major and minor in the subjects they will be teaching – specifically, art, biology, chemistry, English, French, German, history, Latin, mathematics, music, physical education, physics, science and Spanish. To be admitted to Hillsdale’s Teacher Education Program, a student must have and maintain a grade point average of 3.0 or higher.

Needless to say, teacher incompetence isn’t the only explanation for our education malaise. Parents who don’t give a damn and students with minds and attitudes alien and hostile to the education process figure in as well. There’s not much politicians and the education establishment can do about these factors; however, it’s entirely within their power to take measures such as those practiced at Hillsdale to ensure teacher competency.

Dr. Walter E. Williams is the John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va.

Hi,

I am coming from the perspective of an adult with LD/ADHD who recently started work as a special ed paraprofessional. I also have a good friend who teaches elementary school.

I might have missed this but I didn’t see any posts indicating what you have tried to do. I am not making that statement to make excuses for the students or to blame you but to simply have a better understanding of the situation.

For example, has this been going on all year or did it start during a certain time? Are there ever any times where your students don’t have such a negative attitude? If so, what is going on as that might be a key?

Have you considered the fact that your students saying they won’t do something is really a translation for saying this math homework is hard and I feel so stupid for not knowing how to do something that my NT friends do with ease. I don’t know, the impression I have is that most students, LD or not, desperately want to please their teachers and parents. If they aren’t doing it, something is terribly wrong in my opinion.

To the parent who said that it is not taking responsibility to simply say I don’t get it - Sometime, I have no idea what it is I don’t understand unless someone talks me through it. Trust me, I am working very hard to try to understand but the harder I work, the tougher it gets.

As far as what teachers do or don’t do, the only thing I have to say is that even in a special ed school, it seems that students are expected to fit a certain mold. For example, if a student is hyperactive and prefers to stand vs. being seated, that makes staffers uncomfortable except me of course:)). The student’s safety isn’t at stacke and the person isn’t engaging in offensive behaviors. If we are demanding conformity on a what I feel is a minor issue, it is any wonder that students have such a helpless attitude?

I know, when the student gets to be an adult, people are not going to be so tolerant of his/her standing when you supposed to be seated. But before we can get to that point, we need to build a foundation such as gaining the student’s trust and giving him/her confidence that he/she can learn various materials.

I could say alot more but let me end with this point. I ask all of you to think about all the tasks you are bad at and imagine yourself having to do them every day. Do you think you would continue to have a positive attitude for very long? I don’t think you would.

That is what life is like for people with LD, particularly the kind I have, which is NLD. I do my utmost to have a positive attitude but folks, it isn’t easy.

It also takes us according to Sally Smith, owner of the Lab School, a place that serves LD students, 10 times as much effort to complete tasks as NTs. Is it any wonder that we appear to have the negative attitudes that we do?

Please understand that I realize that sometimes, learning tasks is simply hard work, plain and simple. But when I butted heads with teachers, they couldn’t explain to me the purpose of the exercises and why they would be useful. They interpreted my questions as trying to get out of work when all I wanted to know was how doing these exercises would help me. Is it any wonder that I appeared to have a negative attitude?

So if a student like me sounds like they are making excuses, please, please, please look for the underlying reason. Their life depends on it literally and figuratively.

Again Story Night, I am not blaming you. I see the unreasonable demands that parents make so I do get that part. Fortunately, at least in my schook, they are in the small minority and since their job is alot tougher than mine, well, I am not going to be too critical.

Also, my friend who teaches school sounds like she has the worst job on this earth as the demands on her are frankly, absurd in my opinion. I am not shocked at all to read about good teachers leaving.

Anyway, I wanted to present a perspective that maybe you hadn’t thought of since I had the combination of having LD/ADHD and also working in the special ed field.

PT

I believe it is the special ed system which is responsible for this learned helplessness and allows children and their parents to opt out of the hoops other students must jump thru to get thru school with a diploma. We have held our 8th grader with LD accountable for maintaining good grades, and expect him to carry the same number of courses, pass the state mandated tests and graduate with a high school diploma. Is it easy? Of course not and it requires him to do twice the amt of homework as his peers; but no one ever said life was fair, it is just the way it is. We took him out of the special ed system and support him thru tutoring and help at home. Once you are out of 12th grade, no one is going to offer you a “modified life plan” and say just pay part of your rent or fill out what you can of your tax forms, so I think we owe it to our kids to help them toe the line at least by middle school.

Hi PT1,
Having just read your posting, I must say that you provided an excellent summary of the actual situation, and highlighted the crucial issues.
Where Teachers are singularly trained to teach a Mythical Average Student?
Having been through the process myself recently.
Where the fact that each Student/ person Learns in their own way.
Rather than being recognised.
Is defined as a Learning Disorder, if they do not learn in this mythical average learning model.
Your mention of allowing a student to stand rather then sit, is a perfect example. Where the usual solution is to Drug the student, so as to keep them seated! In turn, to label the Student as having a Learning Disorder!
Whereas, their is no research that identifies that learning can only occur whilst being seated!
But I would suggest that in fact if investiigated, it would be found that a notable proportion of people learn better whilst standing?
PT1 you raise a range of important issues in regard to recognising the diversity of ways in which each of us learn.
Where rather than recognising this diversity, and valuing the different perspectives that this brings to understanding.
One is labelled as having a Learning Disorder, and in turn with its labelling as somewhat ‘inferior’?
PT1, I could carry on more, but I’ll finish off by saying that it’s your sort of insight that I hope will shape the future of Education?

If there is learned helplessness they learned it at school. Teachers love it when it syudents opts out because it is one less thing they have to teach..

Good teachers can identitify a problem and then come up with a solution. A bad teacher will become an apologist for her profession and then scapegoat students and their parents. It’s a form of facism.

1. I am a teacher therefore I am right and you are wrong.

2. If you criticize me my colleagues and I will make it hell on your kid.

3. Even though I work 42 weeks a year 6 hrs a day I am over burdened and you need to know that.

4. I can’t educate your child because the state won’t let me.

5, I can’t educate your child because your child will not cooperate.

6. I can’t educate your child because of the way you raise him.

Too many teachers don’t have a clue what life is like for an LD student. If teachers could know what it is like to walk in the shoes of an LD student for just a few days maybe they would be singing another tune.

They have the 3 Rs for students. I have the the Cs for teachers Caring Compasion and Commitment.

On a scale of one to ten how would you rate today’s teachers?

[quote:69f1b58448=”Anonymous”]If there is learned helplessness they learned it at school. Teachers love it when it syudents opts out because it is one less thing they have to teach..

Good teachers can identitify a problem and then come up with a solution. A bad teacher will become an apologist for her profession and then scapegoat students and their parents. It’s a form of facism.

1. I am a teacher therefore I am right and you are wrong.

2. If you criticize me my colleagues and I will make it hell on your kid.

3. Even though I work 42 weeks a year 6 hrs a day I am over burdened and you need to know that.

4. I can’t educate your child because the state won’t let me.

5, I can’t educate your child because your child will not cooperate.

6. I can’t educate your child because of the way you raise him.

Too many teachers don’t have a clue what life is like for an LD student. If teachers could know what it is like to walk in the shoes of an LD student for just a few days maybe they would be singing another tune.

They have the 3 Rs for students. I have the the Cs for teachers Caring Compasion and Commitment.

On a scale of one to ten how would you rate today’s teachers?[/quote]

ROTFLMAO That is so true. I read an article a while back about teachers in Boston. It turns out that only about 50% can pass even the most basic compentency tests. No wonder they end up blaming the students and the parents.

Hi PT1,

<<PT1, I could carry on more, but I’ll finish off by saying that it’s your sort of insight that I hope will shape the future of Education?>>

Hi,

Thanks for your kind words. I wish I could say I was optimistic that my type of insight will shape the future of Education but unfortunately, I am not for various reasons.

PT

To “Guest”….Something to think about. Quit judging….teaching is a hard, demanding profession. If you do not agree, TRY IT ON YOUR OWN!!!

[b]It is not the critic who counts,[/b]nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbled,
or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;
who strives valiantly;
who errs and comes short again and again;
who knows great enthusiasms, great devotions;
who spends himself in a worthy cause;
who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement,
and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly,
so that his place shall never be with those timid souls
who know neither victory nor defeat.
- Theodore Roosevelt

Julianna — the “guest” was just out to make trouble. Now that registration is required for posting, he is too chicken to register and make his statements openly where people can find him, so forget about this junk.

As you can see from my sig, I am a learning disabled student going into elementary education, special education. I think I have a pretty unique view on this…unique might not be the word I’m looking for but…

I have mixed feelings. Yes, I am angry and I do blaime ‘some’ of my teachers. I have reason, but I do not blaime all teachers. I had some wonderful teachers that truely cared, but then I will say the majority of my teachers just didn’t want to ‘deal’ with me and just passed me from grade to grade.

It is truely aweful how some teachers are, but it is not fair to blaime all teachers. Let me just say that from personal experience and listing to other LD college students and elementary students talk, there is so much anger about their situation and sometimes you just need something or someone to blaime. It’s not fair though, for anyone.

Part of the problem is other people’s expectations. It is truely important to find the balance between expecting enough and expecting too much out of students. It truely is frustrating having someone tell you that you can do something, and you are just being lazy or not trying hard enough, when you are truely working your hardest. I would have to say though, even worse than that is not expecting enough. If a teacher expects, and let’s a student get away with, ‘semi-effort’ work it is sending the clear message that “this is as good as you are ever going to be…” or even worse “I just don’t want to deal with you anymore.

Something else that I have seen and experienced is ‘labeling.’ I am Dyslexic, and because I’m Dyslexic some of my teachers expected me to have difficulties with reading. They had heard so many Dyslexia generalizations that that is what they expected. It is so important to truely research the disability, look at past records and talk to past teachers and especially parents. I am Dyslexic, but I have more difficulties with auditory than visual.

Ok…I’m not certain if I even contributed to this discussion. I am not trying to explain anything, just wanted to say something.

…also I am going to apoligize now. I am an aweful speller and I guess I coudl spell check this right now, but I think I’m just going to hope people look past some of my errors :)