Dragon Speak Naturally 7.0

KD,
I posted a response in the Teaching Reading board because I saw your post their first.

We have been trying to use Dragon Speaks at the Lab School of Washington, but no big success stories yeat. We are using buddy microphones, which help, but the big problems are the ones you already spoke about. In addition,k if you have children with dialect issues, it is very hard for the program to read their speech accurately. For example, saying “ax” instead of “ask.” We also have IBM’s Via Voice, but are still struggling to find something with a low enough reading level to work. Would love to hear of any child oriented programs! I have also contacted IBM in their program development department to see if they might have anything in the works, but so far, no luck.

There is a mac only program (if you have Macs around) put out by MacSpeech (www.macspeech.com). Thus far Macs have been way behind PCs in Speech recog as they just got an OS that will handle it really well.

However the company is very small and I did mention this to them about the reading level of their material and they said they had experimented with allowing you to read anything. This was quite awhile ago, but you might contact them and ask how this is coming along and why you are asking. One of the software developers is dyslexic and very interested in this problem. The software is callled iListen.

I can’t really use any speech to text as I have allergies that effect how I sound and I often am a bit nasal which screws everything up. However the last version I have seen had some nice features.
Very small footprint, types into any application (I had an old version of Claris Works for Kids which it worked in, as well as email, etc etc.), very good user interface, etc. (There are little characters to choose from which kids as well as adults like.) I don’t believe it is as accurate as Dragon but if you could get kids to be able to use it that would be a good thing.

Since it is a very small company, they might be more willing to do things for you— it’s a responsive company any who kept up on Mac speech to text when no one else did.

If you email them you might say a “Founder” told you to contact them.
They won’t know my name but “founder” will mean something.

—des

Oh yeah, as for the “ax” vs “ask” problem. Can’t you “teach” the software to recognize “ax” as the word “ask”? After all, just how often will the kids need the word “ax” (as in “I will ask my mother for an ax.” :-))

—des

I just was reading MacSpeech’s current FAQ and will quote it here.

>Can children or teenagers use iListen?

>Like all speech recognition software designed for dictation iListen uses acoustical models based on the adult voice. The voices of children, or teenagers whose voices have not yet fully matured, do not have the right characteristics. We do not support the use of iListen with anyone under the ages 14. (Depending on their voice there may be some 14-year olds who cannot successfully use the program - particularly if they are male.)

ViaVoice experimented with a teenage version. However, if returns at a popular computer store in the Chicago area are any indications it was the most returned item on the shelf.

There are still children and teens that get enough accuracy (may be low in our opinion) to find it useable. The training is really daunting imo, so easier reading might help somewhat. The reading itself tends to be a high level. One of MacSpeech’s readings was a letter about computers which was maybe the easiest and most interesting.

—des

Hello KD:

I have been using Dragon NaturallySpeaking for the last two years with great success. But I am an adult. My understanding is the software does not work that well with young children. Generally, I believe people start students around middle school. You can pick up a copy of the Dragon NaturallySpeaking Essentials for less money and give it a try just for dictation. To control the entire computer by voice takes great deal of training and at least the preferred addition for best results. Straight dictation is not too bad. But since there is mobility problems is I would think he did want computer control.

You might also consider a word processor with word prediction capabilities. You can consider textHelp Read&Write software. A much less expensive word prediction word processor can be acquired from www.readingmadeeasy.com

Jim — Michig\an
Dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking

I agree that word prediction software makes a lot of sense. This will predict words that would work when you start typing. The words it predicts will be based on beginning letters, frequency, frequency you use them and grammar (but won’t always make sense). I believe that with an average kid you could get some good use out of it with a 2-3rd grade spelling level. The brighter the kid is the more s/he will want to say so that a 4th grade reading level is needed. (This is about the same for speech to text btw).

Another good program (a bit pricey but powerful) is “Cowriter 4000” from www.donjohnston.com

—des

In terms of word prediction, another excellent software program is WordQ ($150) which opens in any application, which is different from Co:Writer.

One of the benefits of a word prediction program, besides how it limits keystrokes, is that it provides a visual prompt for the student. This helps to reduce their spelling errors and encourages them to use more grade appropriate vocabulary.

Well as far as Cowriter working in any application it does!!
I don’t know about Cowriter 4000 but I can’t imagine taking away functionality. (Only Micro$oft does that. $)

I used to use Cowriter and really like it. I could use it in everything but a database (spreadsheets aren’t practical but it did work). I used it email, word processing, multimedia software, etc etc etc. And aside from databases never found it didn’t work on something.

Cowriter 4000 has a new feature which will take a misspelled word and predict a proper replacement for it. For example spell “castle” k-a-ssl
and it gives you the possible word (s). This is good for the phonetic but bad speller.

I think the price tag is higher though.

—des

I had excellent success with Dargon speak Naturally with my daughter who was a rising 6th grader at the time. However, she dictates very fluently and always has. She has great language but couldn’t write it down or spell to save her soul. She had been dictating to mom and dad since 3rd grade.

The reading portion of the training/setting up of the program was a problem - it was excerpts from Treasure Island which she found tough to read. We started and stopped alot, I whispered in her ear. It took time but for a verbally able child, it was well worth the time-it is wonderful!

The microphone placement and quality is crucial. You really need to get a habit of correct placement. I eventually bought a better quality head set.

I tried other products but found Dragon speak naturally -literally in a league of its own. I used it with Windows XP. I set it up for my voice before trying it with my daughter so that I was familiar with the program and the training. I would not reccommend trying it cold on a kid, as there is frustration involved.

Good luck

Right now I am working with our 5th grade daughter in the “training mode” of dragon and it is not working well. :cry: We are using the head set that came with the program and if anyone has information about a better headset please post it.

Our daughter is very verbal, speaks clearly, but has tremendous difficulty with the physical task of writing and spelling. She is moving from Grove’s Academy, a private K-12 school, only for students with learning differences, to a mainstream school in Fall 2004. In her 3 years at Grove’s our daughter has been extremely successful and see herself as an “able learner”. I believe voice recognition capability is essential for her to maintain her confidence and belief in herself as a learner during this transition to a mainstreamed middle school environment.

We have tired working with an Apha Smart computer with Co-writer and she gets frustrated because to her it is so slow.

Anything anyone can suggest to help us use Dragon Naturally Speaking successfully would be greatly appreciate.

Vivian

Hi

There is a guy over at comp.speech.users on google groups who is really helpful. He sells microphones etc. but is always willing to offer advice and not just the salesman speil.

He always lists the following links at the bottom of his reponses. They are worth checking out.

The best microphones for Speech Recognition
See us at: http://www.eMicrophones.com/index.asp
Read, “Key Steps to High Speech Recognition Accuracy” at:
http://www.emicrophones.com/docDetails.asp?DocumentID=38

I believe I ended up buying a microphone from upteen years ago back in the days of discrete speech, you know you…talk… each…word…like… this and it comes back with (you balk teach food white :-)).

Anyway he is a great guy and very helpful.
There used to be a group for teachers, parents, etc. of disabled kids using this technology. I was going to go looking and if I find it will let you all know.

—des

Yes getting a better microphone should help. You can also get help with Dragon NaturallySpeaking at a great forum of the following Web address:

http://www.voicerecognition.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

As the dyslexic adult I wonder how I ever got along without my Dragon NaturallySpeaking! To speak the words and they appear on the screen. The biggest advantage is the ability to use the entire range of your speaking vocabulary without concerns for spelling. Often not been able to spelling word would mean that using that word. But with Dragon NaturallySpeaking I am able to use all kinds words. Abracadabra, invertebrate, dyslexia, disentanglement and more and more.

Jim — Michigan

Has anyone found that using a USB microphone (and not plugging into the soundcard) improves recognition? We have had some success with this.

Also, in regard to word prediction, I’ve found advantage with CoWriter for persons who have learning and visual impairment. The auditory feedback is great and the ability to enlarge the fonts in the prediction list is great. A problem with the word prediction feature in Kurzweil is the prediction list does not have adjustable fonts (at least to my knowledge). Does WordQ offer the auditory output? How about changing size of the prediction list font? Definitely slower than voice, but a better match for some folks.
Thanks,
jeff

Jeff,
WordQ does offer auditory feedback - you can hear the word choices read, it will read back the word after you input it and it will read the sentence back to you after you type the end punctuation. You can choose these features or not.
Another feature that WordQ offers which I really like is that the prediction box moves across the page with your cursor so there is little eye shifting needed. This ability to track across the page as the student types is very beneficial for some students.
Another feature that is great is that WordQ works whenever you are inputting text.
I used WordQ in Word yesterday with a second grade student who is extremely slow in generating written language (much slower than his peers) among other issues. To help him get used to using WordQ, I copied some Lord of the Rings pictures from the Internet (one of his favorite movies) and added “callouts” from the drawing toolbar. He added his own thoughts to what the characters were thinking and thought this was an awesome activity. (I’m also trying to get him used to the keyboard and word processor as I see this as the future for him as lengthier written work is required.)
You can download a 30 day trial from the website.

I am working with a student who is using DN on a laptop, and we got a USB mic. so we wouldn’t have to fool around so much with the sound card… plus, there is more noise from a laptop.

The microphone cost around $90 and is worth every penny. The accuracy I can get is fine, though my student is struggling for lots of reasons other than the microphone.

We bought Dragon 8.0 for my 9th grader. At first we couldn’t get it trained, and he was ready to throw in the towel. We found that the built-in voice recognition program with Windows XP was conflicting. Once we turned that off, the program works beautifully. He trained it in about 10 minutes and got close to 95% accuracy right off the bat. I insisted he do the tutorial, which took him about 30 minutes. The next week he wrote a 5 page history paper using Dragon, and it was great. It actually sounded like it was written by a bright, articulate 9th grader—which he is. Prior to this, his writing was at least 2-3 years behind in vocabulary and word usage and lightyears behind in spelling and punctuation. He said, “finally, I can communicate.”

Dragon works great in AOL IM, too, which was a fun way for him to practice.

Yeah!!

Awesome :-) You shoudl get a commission :-)

Connie,
Thanks for the success story. Those of us who use a variety of tools to help remove the obstacles to academic independence value hearing success stories such as your son’s. DNS can be invaluable for some students as long as the limitations and benefits are clearly understood.
Karen

I’m happy to hear that it works in AOL IM-a motivator if there ever was one!!!
Good to know-thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the comments about my son’s history paper process. I realize I didn’t give the rest of the technology details. He also used Scan and Read Pro to read chapters in books, Reading Bar from Read Please for reading internet articles, Inspiration! to organize, and then the DN for the actual writing. We’ve been trying to piece this technology package together for a year (or more) and it is so gratifying to have him successfully do a challenging history paper independently. On to Semester 2!

I used Dragon for a few months with a 10 year old extremely LD child. She was, however, very articulate……..which is a must. You can train it on the child’s voice by whispering the training passages into their ear (most are written at a high readability). It is impressive if the child is somewhat familiar with keyboarding already. I have no long term data however, as the child moved shortly after receiving the software. Try to get the software from a large local company first……….waiting from the manufacturer takes up to 1 year!!! Also, for reasons unknown, it is cheaper through local providers.

I used Dragon for a few months with a 10 year old extremely LD child. She was, however, very articulate……..which is a must. You can train it on the child’s voice by whispering the training passages into their ear (most are written at a high readability). It is impressive if the child is somewhat familiar with keyboarding already. I have no long term data however, as the child moved shortly after receiving the software. Try to get the software from a large local company first……….waiting from the manufacturer takes up to 1 year!!! Also, for reasons unknown, it is cheaper through local providers.

Just yesterday a student came in for a little proofreading and said he’d gotten version 8 and that it was much more accurate than 7.

There’s also an article in the annals of dyslexia about a speech recognition program for teaching reading (very specialized at an individual school) — the interesting thing was that doing the speech rec part, it would seem the attention given to correct pronunciation enhanced phonemic awareness and reading skills. Poor folks were mildly disconcerted with saying something was being learned implicitly in an IDA Journal (doesn’t happen often!!) but it does bear some thinking about!