Tomatis Method?

Hi,

Just wanted to add to my question. Even if you haven’t tried this Intervention (The Tomatis Method). Do you know of know of anyone who has tried it?

It is VERY expensive (will cost about $10,000) at the Center I am looking at. So I need to gather more information than just the promotional materials/claims that are made by the providers of the service.

Thanks again for any input!

We used The Listening Program with success. I know DEA who posts on this board has used Tomatis and was very happy with the results. She also has used TLP and said it was less powerful. But it is considerably less expensive (100s not thousands).

I also spoke some years ago to an audiologist who did Somonas. It too was a lot less than you are talking about.

Beth

We used Samonas with very good results but I do like the idea of Tomatis b/c it is very intensive.

Is this in the same category as the Listening program?

agapemom,

Please understand that the AIT programs are mainly used with autistic children. The books I have read on APD state that there is NO research to determine how effective those programs are for APD. It would be a $10,000 shot in the dark…might help, might not.

If you are interested in a listening program just to try something, by all means take the previous advice to try The Listening Program at $425 in your own home.

http://www.rmlearning.com/auditoryprocessing.htm

There are many good therapies to help a child with APD which may be more effective in improving auditory skills needed for communication and learning. Fast ForWord and Lindamood Bell LiPS come to mind.

My child has APD but I would not even consider Tomatis. I think the negatives of it outweigh the positives for me. However, if my child was autistic instead, I might have a different outlook. (just my opinion)

Janis

We went thru the Tomatis program when my dd was 5 for APD issues. We saw very good results. My dd was a different child. She could not learn prior. If your child is severe (mine was), I did not find alot of options at age 5. FFW is too hard for a 5 yr old to sit thru and LMB doesn’t address the same issues that FFW or Tomatis does.

$10K is alot of money? We paid around $3K. Tomatis is not a cure. You still will probably need to do programs such as LMB or Phonographix for reading and maybe other cognitive improvement programs. In hindsight, Tomatis was one of the best programs we did for our dd at 5.

Our center used Tomatis to treat a wide variety of issues such as brain trauma, depression, ADHD, and CAPD.

Yes, $3000 is much different than $10,000. I’d have to think long and hard even if Mr. Tomatis himself was giving the program for $10,000! I’d still get the opinions of a couple of APD specialist audiologists before deciding, though. And then, price shop for the provider!

Janis

Just wondering if there is a resell market for some of these home CD versions?

Betsy

Betsy,

I am always on the lookout for used “Listening Program” CD’s. I have only seen one set be sold on ebay and it went for close to the purchase price new. One would think people would like to get something back for them when they are finished, so I don’t know why there aren’t more for sale. Perhaps one reason is that some providers just lend the CD’s and charge for their services so that the family does not own the CD’s.

Janis

Just a thought, but there were a number of families at our clinic that their medical covered a portion of the Tomatis - it fell under ‘mental health’. Our insurance didnt’ cover it as we have an HMO with no out-of-network capability.

The director of our clinic is an MD Psychiatrist/Neurologist - so that may be how he qualified as mental health. It was also one of the key reasons ours cost the amount it did - every 15min session with him we got billed his rates, I think it was like $100.

Something to check.

Hello and thank you to everyone that has posted.

I’ve done a lot of additional research since I last posted.

BTW, the 10k figure included travel as I was looking at the Davis Center and their fees are around 8.5k and I figured going from Florida to NJ 3 times (even if I could stay in the Ronal McDonald house) would cost me at least the other 1.5k

DEA, I was wondering where you did Tomatis? I am talking now with Dr. Tatum in Winter Park, FL who is a psychiatrist/psychologist - his fees are 80.00 per hour for Tomatis and recommends 4 15 hour sessions for a total of 4,800.00. I would have to drive about an hour and a half each way but it sure beats traveling out of state.

I am excited to find Dr. Tatum because he also does a complete evaluation including blood tests, allergy testing, and hair samples to try to get the most comprehensive picture of what is going on with Dean.

Right now I do not know he has CAPD - I only suspect it. Dean is getting his tonsils out a week from today - his ENT wrote a RX for a CAPT but there is no one locally who does the test so I will get it from Dr. Tatum’s office (he has a speech and language specialist in his office as well).

I am desperate to figure out what is up with Dean.

Here are his “issues” - does anyone want to comment?

- very social but inappropriate - interrupts conversations, does not understand the concept of waiting for his turn - does not read facial expressions.
- seeks sensory input, watches TV upside down, turns self upside down, “body slams” into the furniture or people (just for fun).
- when he wants someone’s attention he does not know, instead of talking to them he will hit, lick, or shove them (laughing as he does it, he is not doing it in a mean way… just to get their attention)
- having behavior problems in school during any unstructured time (especially the cafeteria) hits or licks kids and gets in trouble.
- also spits.
- had an ear infection that began when he was 4 months old and honestly, has only been gone perhaps one year of his 5 and a half year old life.
- had tubes put in at 13 months and the ENT said she pulled stuff like dried up Elmer’s Glue out of his ear.
- doesn’t have great balance, spills and drops things a lot.
- if he does not like a food must be spoon fed.
- won’t sit still to eat, gets up all of the time.
- has dust, mold and mildew allergies.
- must go to bed with antihistamine or will wake up with stuffed up nose every day.
- is tired all day
- does not sleep well at night.
- picky eater
- 5 and a half years old and recognizes only about 5 letters of the alphabet
- no dominant (mixed dominant) hand
- can draw now but cannot copy - can’t make lines go the direction he wants - he can tell it does not match the letter he is trying to copy.
- gives up on anything difficult easily
- after his tubes were put in at 13 mos. I could tell that he heard ALL sounds and could not discriminate - for example, when we drove over a water puddle he would exclaim, “what’s that noise?”, and once at the park he covered his ears and said, “I don’t like that bird!” (speaking of a mocking bird singing from across the park).
- used to have sound sensitivity but I think now he still has it but has learned to compensate. Often however, he will say that a sound “frightened him”.
- does not have good grasp of language - still calls females him and he instead of her / she. Doesn’t understand first and last. Speaks in a monotone voice, speaks slowly, still messes up a lot of words Fooby instead of Scooby, Face instead of Space (all Sp and Sc words are pronounced with an “F”)
- tried to do Audiblox lessons with him but he can barely copy a colored block pattern Even If The Card Is Left Visible for him to look at.
- whispers phrases he hears under his breath as if trying to understand them or practice saying them.
- has a good imagination and I can tell that he is intelligent but trapped by the learning problems.
- has said under his breath at school, “I’m a stupid idiot”. and to me after one of his days when he hit in the cafeteria and was sent to the principal, “Why am I such a bad boy?”
- has no idea why he hits - it is a completely impulsive thing and often the person that got hit was doing NOTHING
- last night while I was changing the baby’s diaper, Dean slowly and deliberately pinched the baby’s arm - I think he has no awareness at all that it hurts the baby.
- can rarely follow a one-step instruction independenly let alone a two-step instruction.

Well, that’s probably not everything but it is a good snapshot.

Does this sound like PDD NOS? ADD? CAPD? All of the above?

I can’t wait to see Dr. Tatum and start to get some answers!

Hi,

I forgot three more issues with Dean that concern me…

- he has to carry something with him everywhere. The item can change but usually for that day it is a fixation - he does not play with the item much, mostly it just needs to be with him (last night he found some old boy scout books and those were his “items”, this AM when he woke up the first thing he asked is, where are my boy scout books?). For a while, a Lincoln Log was his item.

- he has only one “tick”, he adjusts his pants and shirt repeatedly, especially when under stress such as getting verbally reprimanded for something.

- during periods of great stress (when things are bad at school and he is not feeling well) he stutters - this only happened for the first time this year.

I would not venture to try and diagnose him, but it is definitely more than just auditory processing. While a speech-language therapist can screen for APD, they cannot diagnose it. Only an audiologist can diagnose it. Here is the web-site of an audiologist who tests for APD in FL:

http://www.auditoryprocessingdisorders.com/

Then, I would find a good developmental pediatrician or neuropsychologist and get a good overall evaluation before dealing with side issues like the auditory/Tomatis. You need to get a diagnosis first before deciding on treatment.

Janis

I dont’ really want to do a net dx and I wouldn’t be exactly qualified, but there are some autism spectrum type problems here.

Here are some of the “warning signs”:
-The inappropriate social behavior— kids on the spectrum are often social but just not appropriate about it.
- not knowing how others might feel;
- very social but inappropriate - interrupts conversations, does not understand the concept of waiting for his turn - does not read facial expressions; seeking attention thru inappropriate ways (licking their face);
-might not understand consequences of behavior but because he isn’t socially adept enough.
-frequent ear infections
- poor motor skills (balance included here)
-does not sleep well at night
- picky eater
-sound sensitivity— dislike of some sounds (and even words— I disliked a few words intensely as a kid, got upset when my mom said them for instance)
-difficulties in language aquisition (may be subtle)

Barbara Kirby’s website might be of more help really, deals with kids on the spectrum, and some of the problems you listed.
See:
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/

This is an asperger site but with other info. HTH,’

—des

I, too, would recommend that you get a complete eval from a neuropsych or dev. ped.

You should also consider a therapy like NeuroNet. Their website is www.neuronetonline.com. Your son’s significant history of ear infections may be a primary cause of his developmental delays, and NeuroNet addresses these resulting deficits at a vestibular/sensory level.

Lori

Agapemom,

We went to the Center for Inner Change in Denver, CO and saw Dr. Ron Minson (he is also a co-developer of The Listening Program). The way we were charged was by a group of sessions. The 1st session was like 2-4 times a week for 4 weeks - each listening period was 2hrs. We would have a 3-4 week break in-between sessions. Then we would have checkpoints with a listening test and a consult from Dr. Minson. We paid lump sum up-front as you got an additional discount by doing so. We ended up not having to do the last group of sessions as she completed her milestones quickly and we were refunded some of the money (which we ended up using to pay for TLP program and a couple other things).

Dr. Minson has now digitized the ‘electonic ear’ and this has cut the listening sessions down to 1.5hrs and fewer weeks - makes it less expensive.

It appears your son has many issues - auditory processing, visual processing, sensory integration etc. Your son’s brain is just neurologically disorganized - it’s overactive in parts and asleep in others. This can be caused by genetics, brain trauma, or other disruptions to the vestibular system/development. Tomatis will help to ‘wake-up’ the parts of the brain that are asleep. It addresses MANY of the ‘symptoms’ you describe. Make sure you have proper expectations. This will not cure - but it will make things so much easier for your son.

Tomatis was the best ‘investment’ we have made. We’ve done LOTS of programs since as well. My dd would not have been able to do ANY of these programs had we not done Tomatis first (and we tried Earobics and LMB to no success prior to Tomatis).

Ask your Dr. for references. I bet our center knows the Dr. you are working with in Florida - call them to find out? Read everything you can get your hands on.

Your son is only 5. You have a long path ahead of you, but you are starting young. You are way ahead of most people.

If you decide to go ahead with the program, let us know how it goes for you.

Have you heard of the Handle Institute (www.handle.org). I just had my son evaluated in their Seattle office, but they have other locations as well. they do a holistic neurodevelopmental assessment of all issues and get a full picture of a persons’s strengths and weaknesses. They “prescribe” a home treatment plan of simple exercises to address deficits in the vestibular system (your son’s history of ear infections is a red flag for that), proprioception, muscle tone, allergies, etc… whatever is relevant for your child. the exercises are simple and fun, take less than 30 minutes a day, need to be done every day to see results. If you live far away, you communicate with them at least monthly via videotape. They modify and change the exercises as you progress. they have a new book out: The Churkendoose Anthology. I believe that they are on the cutting edge of treating neurodevelopmental problems. I don’t claim to be an expert on all of these complicated issues, but the more I learn, the more what they do makes sense to me. I think your son has more going on than CAPD so you are right to be looking for someone who can address the big picture. Good luck!!

LindaW,

I actually called Handle Institute about 4 yrs ago. I talked to them for quite some time. I was toying with going Handle vs. NACD. The biggest difference between the 2 was their philosophy on dominance. NACD wants the client to establish a main dominance - either right or left. Handle also believed that dominance is key, but they felt you don’t have to switch - you can make your different hemispheres talk better together. They also validated for me the importance of the vestibular system and how disruptions to it can cause so many issues.

Turns out that Dr. Minson (the Dr. we did Tomatis under) knows Judith Bluestone. He was running a seminar in town on brain development or something like that and she was his keynote speaker. She is an incredibly intelligent woman (80+ IQ ?) and was PDD growing up. Many of the ‘techniques’ she uses, she developed in overcoming her own disability.

That I recall, I have not heard anyone on this board use Handle before. I’m anxious to hear how it goes for you?

Thanks again everyone for your wonderful suggestions!

I’ve started looking for a neuropshycologist and/or a developmental pediatrician and have discovered that there are none in my county but there are some in Orlando (only an hour away).

Also, the info on NeuroNet and Handle was Extremely helpful to me. I have contacted both centers and am seriously thinking about going to Seattle in January. I really like that they will do an evaluation and get down to the root of the problem regardless of a “diagnosis”.

I am not as interested in getting a name for his disability as I am in finding an appropriate therapy.

It seems like Handle (or NeuroNet) would be a good place to start and then they could guide me in additional therapies they think might be helpful as well as what additional evaluations I might need.

DEA, I’m off to look up NACD in Google - did you go to them?

I have a local person who I would buy The Listening Program from (when I get to the point that I think it is what we should do) and she has trained under Dr. Minson. I think I’d like to do Tomatis under him if we do it.

Thanks again

There is a Neuronet provider in Orlando, which you might consider. We have done Neuronet and it has been a wonderful therapy for my son.

Beth

Hi Beth,

Thanks for the info! I actually spoke to the lady in Orlando on the phone and she was very nice and helpful.

I am going to post a question to the board trying to learn the differences/advantages of NeuroNet vs. Handle vs. NACD. I’d love to hear more details about how it helped your son.