Battles over room-HELP!

Oppositional defiant behavior is pretty much the norm for teenagers. I find the doctor’s advice somewhat odd. It’s not possible to nip teenage behavior ‘in the bud’ - it’s like trying to get a toddler not to toddle. Defiance comes with the territory of adolescence. They’re practicing independence in the safe environment of their family. They’re trying to establish themselves as independent of their family yet they can’t be.

And you have to live with them while all this is going on. Does your son’s doctor have any teenagers of his own? His advice sounds so unrealistic. the only thing I might agree with is the ‘nagging’ - clearly it isn’t working. His room is still messy no matter how much you chide him.

What you saying about your son’s room though suggests that it’s more than messy. Messy is one thing. The leftover food is unsanitary. Food rots and invites bugs and rodents into your home. That’s a safety issue. What I’d do is tell him no more food in his room unless he cleans up after himself. The food that’s leftover has to be brought down to the kitchen and the dishes too. And the soda cans. It’s a basic sanitary issue. Would you allow him to not bathe? Allowing him to strew half eaten food around his bedroom is almost as unsanitary as not bathing.

He is ADD though and ADD people, including myself, have trouble staying on task and organizing and that’s what cleaning up a room basically is. One needs to stay on task and organize. Both my own sons are ADD and I would help them with their rooms. I didn’t expect perfection - they’re teenage boys after all - but I did expect some semblance of order. No dirty laundry on the floor. I’d go in the room with a laundry basket and together we’d get the room straightened fairly quickly. We usually tackled it on a Saturday afternoon.

I wouldn’t make it a choice but I wouldn’t be angry. His messiness is a sign he needs some help.

I never tied anything to my sons’ allowances. I didn’t see their allowances as pay for work done. I didn’t give large allowances and they needed their allowance to buy lunch at school and a very few little extras. If they wanted large amounts of spending money, they either needed to get a part time job or do larger tasks around the house for which I’d pay them.

The teenage years are the hardest. Much good luck.

I’m wondering about the relationship your family has with this Dr. If you left the appointment with you thinking that cleaning the room for your son was an option, and your son left with the impression that you were going to do it, how is the communcation working? When we saw a counselor for my dd I had to learn to say no when I knew I wasn’t going to follow thru with a suggestion of hers. There is always more than one way to approach a problem. The bedroom is also a battle ground with my dd and I. I have learned to just shut the door. She also brings food in there, and that is where I draw the line. Of course it’s not allowed, so she hides it, she likes to eat at night. I’ll stand in her doorway if I have to until she picks up her food. I won’t pick up her clothes, I can’t tell what is clean or dirty, so she wears some pretty wrinkled clothes, that are sometimes in need of a washing. When it becomes important to her, she’ll clean it. The nagging just doesn’t work, an ODD child gets something from being constantly nagged, even though they yell and scream about it. Have you ever read “The Oppositional Child” by Douglas Riley, or “The Explosive Child” by Ross Greene? Both are excellent books for dealing with ODD kids. When learning how to parent an ODD child it is as much about changing your behavior as it is about creating a change in theirs.

This is not the same exact thing but similar. When I was a kid my room was always disastrous. My mother told me when I was 12 that if I left my clothes on the floor one more time that she would not do my laundry anymore. Of course, I did and she taught me how to do laundry. She also never did my laundry again and I always did my own even if it meant I had to wear wet clothes to school (don’t think she knew about that) because I didn’t allow time in the dryer. It wasn’t until over 10 years later that my mother told me she didn’t intend to hold me to that but once I started doing it all myself she had no complaints at all! So, maybe that’s not such a bad idea. You can shut the door and he can take care of some things himself. I do agree with the previous posts. I don’t allow food in the bedrooms and it sounds like that is where you may have to draw the line!

Thanks for the replies. I certainly agree that the food situation is unsanitary and is going to have to stop.

My son does have trouble with organization, and I know his room situation is overwhelming at the present time. HOWEVER, many times in the past, I have gotten his room in order (it has never been THIS bad…) so that he could “start fresh” and keep it up. That lasts for a week at the most. His idea of “organization” is to line up the empty cans neatly on his night stand or, instead of emptying his trash, using three feet of masking tape to tape a new garbage bag to the inside of his door!

I also don’t like correlating an allowance with chores. His doctor feels that he shouldn’t get money for simply existing and would like us to give it to him based on how much he has contributed to the family, i.e., doing his two or three chores without being nagged, one of which is his room.

We probably do have a communication issue with this doctor. He feels that I am contributing to my son’s emerging “ODD” behavior by arguing with him. I’m not sure that this is true, but I felt that we should give his idea a chance.

I haven’t read the two books Roxie mentioned— I’ll check into those.

I also have told my son that if his clothes aren’t in the dirty hamper they won’t get washed. So far, he is “recycling” his favorite clothes from the floor, but, at some point, he’ll get them in the hamper.

I really feel that this has turned into a power struggle game right now, and he is waiting to see if I will “break”.

To some degree my daughters room is her space and if she wants friends over in knee deep clothes-so be it. I found that when we helped her paint her room lavendar, purchased a purple area rug and made a huge purple tie-dyed bulletin board, the the laundry in the basket discusion got much better. We only do the laundry that hits the basket. We have had to institute a no-food outside the dining/kitchen/family rooms.

You may find that helping your child get rid of the outgrown or the unneccessary, installing a closet organizer or simply the purchase of 2 dozen more hangers may help. Carrot and stick. help them get organized and apply pressure to stay moderately organized. But we are supportive in the get-to-organized phase.

I too have questions about the doc.

HOWEVER, many times in the past, I have gotten his room in order (it has never been THIS bad…) so that he could “start fresh” and keep it up. That lasts for a week at the most.

I find the ‘fresh start’ concept doesn’t work for my ADD students. It’s not just the fresh start they need, they need support with and through the on-going process.

I do the same thing with their binders at school. I sit down and throw out, straighten up and get their binders in neat order. yet when the first handouts come their way by the end of the day their binders are well on their way to disorganization again. I need to stand over my ADD kids and encourage - and watch - while the papers are put into the binder. Otherwise, the papers get shoved in the backpacks or left on the desk or shoved in the binder but not in the right place.

Helping ADD kids to stay organized needs daily input from their support person not just a fresh start. They need to have organization modeled for them. when you do the fresh start, is he with you? is he getting to see how organization is done a step at a time? First, the dirty clothes, then etc. etc. Add kids don’t know how to do organization and it can be taught like anything else but it takes time and lots and lots of patience.

Sounds like an ongoing frustration! I certainly agree with the doctor that allowance can be used as a reinforcement tool, but I would not just forget about the room if it is that bad. My best suggestion is to focus on things you DO control (like you are doing with the laundry) and to use them as ways to create incentives. This should include positive incentives as well, as these often work better. For instance, you could exchange doing some kind of work that he usually does (like washing his dishes, for example) if he manages to keep the room clean for x days. Or offer to take him on an outing that he might otherwise not be able to do, or something of this sort. If he has a positive reinforcement for doing it (which you ask HIM about, so you know it is reinforcing) as well as a consequence for not doing it, and you let him make the decision, that will give you the best chances of success. But you CAN’T be too invested in his decision, or he will know. You just have to be willing to calmly assess the consequences and let him live with it.

I also concur that hanging in with him to assure follow-through is essential. I offer to assist in certain ways only if they are directing the work and doing work themselves. It is overwhelming sometimes for kids and they don’t connect the dirty room with their behavior. If it can somehow become a routine, it is easier. I like to do contracts on a daily or weekly basis with all of this spelled out, and I make them sign it. That way there is no argument about what we agreed to.

Sounds like typical teenager stuff, though. Don’t sweat it too much - a day will come when he values a more orderly space, and he will then appreciate some of the things you are trying to do. Until then, be patient! They do grow up!

–— Steve :)

and my poor neat twin sister had to put up with me for years. Anywho, I have fought this battle with my daughter, haven’t won it yet. She is a slob and knows it could care less. Dishes, food, clothes, junk, you name it, sometimes its like a scientific exploration just opening the door. BUT and a big one here, she is a great kid, focused, good all around. No problems in school, etc. so I have to decide if its a battle that can be given up and I can just close the door. She evidently doesnt mind it although I can figure it out. So if all else is ok, I agree its a teenage thing and hopefully they will soon grow out of it.

It is absolutely amazing to me how everthing is given a name these days. 30 years ago my sister would have been ADHD, my brother ODD and OCD among other things. Teenage years are rough and they are pushing their boundaries. Smart ass remarks, defiant behavior, lazyness, etc. to me its just part of the process. Certainly not looking forward to it. I remember being defiant, bitchy, moody, mouthy, etc. Wasn’t that normal for a teenager?

Yes, I’m so glad that there is a name and some tools available to deal with my 2 kids. My 7 yr old has ADHD and we’ve learned some great ways to deal with it so that she doesn’t get labeled “lazy” or “rude”. She’s considered the hardest worker in the class now and is learning to control her impulses better so that she does not appear rude. She’s developed ways to circumvent her short-term memory issues so as not to look “dumb”. She’s certainly not perfect but she always working on herself. My 5 year old has OCD and we may be able to deal with it so effectively that she may never need medication. I compare her to my older sister that was just considered “crazy”, no one knew how to help kids with OCD in her time. I know the teasing and punishment for her odd behavior didn’t solve anything. Cognitive behavioral therapy and exposure works great for her.

So, yes it is fantastic that these conditions have names and tools are being developed to address the issues rather than leave my kids to the harsh close-mindedness of the world. I think understanding the “teen” years might help teenagers and parents cope with the manifestations more effectively. When we get to those years you can bet I’ll be reading all the research! I can’t add much insight into the messy room issue but I applaud all you moms and dads who are comparing notes and exchanging ideas. The teen years will pass but I can’t blame you for trying to maintain some order in your families.

Terry

[quote=”Jul”]HOWEVER, many times in the past, I have gotten his room in order (it has never been THIS bad…) so that he could “start fresh” and keep it up. That lasts for a week at the most.

I find the ‘fresh start’ concept doesn’t work for my ADD students. It’s not just the fresh start they need, they need support with and through the on-going process.

I do the same thing with their binders at school. I sit down and throw out, straighten up and get their binders in neat order. yet when the first handouts come their way by the end of the day their binders are well on their way to disorganization again. I need to stand over my ADD kids and encourage - and watch - while the papers are put into the binder. Otherwise, the papers get shoved in the backpacks or left on the desk or shoved in the binder but not in the right place.

Helping ADD kids to stay organized needs daily input from their support person not just a fresh start. They need to have organization modeled for them. when you do the fresh start, is he with you? is he getting to see how organization is done a step at a time? First, the dirty clothes, then etc. etc. Add kids don’t know how to do organization and it can be taught like anything else but it takes time and lots and lots of patience.[/quote]

I agree 100%. Thank you for sharing your pearls of wisdom. It’s always great to hear from those with hands on experience.

I totally understand where you are coming from. You described my 6th grader’s room, and behavior to a “T”! My son is ADHD, and very unorganized, messy,etc. When it came to his room, after a week of threatening, I would end up cleaning it. It never bothered him, even when he lost privledges. The step you took with the laundry is a good one!
I talked with my son’s counselor, and he recommended breaking down the jobs concerning cleaning his room. He said it’s just too much for them to take in all at once, so break it down in smaller jobs…”you have 10 minutes to take care of the food and cans”, then “you have 10 minutes to pick up all the clothes” etc. I am still working with this myself, but staying consistant, I am starting to see little changes.
With 4 boys, I also have started a new thing of checking their rooms every night at 7p.m. They know I will be doing this consistently! If their beds are not made and rooms are messy, they spend the last hour before bedtime cleaning it. If it is clean, they can watch a favorite show, read or play a game with mom,dad or brothers. That has been working rather well. Good luck!