Seriously though, where's the interest?

It depends on how you look at the issue from where you sit.

First, peace and quiet. Whose? If you mean for the child to feel peace and quiet (in addition to focus and self-control) and therefore to become a happier, more productive, more social child, teenager, adult, then it may very well be worth it to medicate the child.

If you mean peace and quiet for teachers and principals who don’t want to deal and think they shouldn’t have to deal with kids with ADHD and other disabilities, when I don’t give a damn about that. I wouldn’t and don’t medicate my child for that reason. I do medicate my child (but with Risperdal, the subject of the other recent news reports on medication) for the first reason mentioned. My son has expressed and displayed a lack of self-control in many aspects.

So, to me, there is a real interest in helping children who are wired in such a way that impulse and lack of self control and hyperactivity and attention deficits interfere with learning and successfully socializing. Is the medication (ADHD and antipsychotic) a perfect solution? Of course not. In fact, my son has been ill lately, and we are quick to blame this medication, when in fact it may not be the cause.

Here is a question to throw around — if we were talking about strong drugs for physical ailments (diabetes, cancer, etc.), and your children depended on it for a comfortable, productive, successful live (or for live, period), would there be the same controversy? What is it about the psychotropic/mental health-related drugs that gets us anxious?

I’m not a big fan of any drugs, frankly. The less I take, the happier I am. But I know that when they are necessary, common sense says to take them. Medication in general has its benefits.

That said, certainly the drugs we give our children need to be tested and scrutinized repeatedly.

I have to agree with Esmom. Medication should be for the benefit of the person taking it. My dd would not willingly give up her medications because she never, ever wants to be in the dark place she was before. She knows that if it were not for her meds she would probably be dead.

Those of us with children on psychiatric meds must fight the stigma that has so often followed. Our kids just want to be “normal” or at least as normal as is possible. They want to be able to do the things other kids do and they are tired of not being able to accomplish it. They want society to understand them, not blame them for something beyond their control.

Please take the time to read the thread header before submitting uncalled for defenses for your decisions to allow drug treatments for your children here.

This thread has zero to do with whether a parent has decided to permit his/her child to take drugs for the group of symptoms labeled “ADHD”. Nor has it anything to do with whether drugs are the correct solution or not, in all, any, or one individual case.

The thread asks “Where is the interest” in finding out everything there is to know about the symptoms, their treatment, drugs, potential long term side-effects and new discoveries by the concerned adult relatives of the 2.5 million children, in the US alone, who now take potent stimulant drugs for these symptoms?

And what stigma? 2.5 million children are now taking these drugs in the US. If there ever was a stigma attached to a parent’s decision to use potent, relatively untested, brain-altering drugs as palliatives for behavioral quirks, it’s long gone. That’s my point (perhaps there’s a reason for stigmas?)

10% of boys aged 10 to 12! No matter your personal situation and stance on this, that stat has to make you sit up and take notice. If you’re one of the few people who would be in a position to read it, that is.

“So I ask, seriously, is there any real interest beyond achieving peace and quiet?”

Looks to me like they were responding to your question by describing the specifics of their interest.

Having worked with individuals with disabilities, and some of their family members, for over 30 years I can tell you that most of them don’t use discussion forums on the Internet as their first source of info - they prefer working face-to-face with professionals. So, to answer your question about “Where’s the interest?”, it’s not on what’s been frequently referred to as the errornet.

John

Brian, you wrote:

“And what stigma? 2.5 million children are now taking these drugs in the US. If there ever was a stigma attached to a parent’s decision to use potent, relatively untested, brain-altering drugs as palliatives for behavioral quirks, it’s long gone. That’s my point (perhaps there’s a reason for stigmas?) ”

Such statements help create, highlight and support a stigma that’s still there. We as a society freak out about psychotropic drugs and more freely accept drugs for physical ailments. Again, why?

And I’m not defensive (or don’t mean to be), but stating MY facts. Aggressiveness, anxiety, mood disorders, ADHD and other similar disorders closely related to behavior are not merely “behavioral quirks.” I wish it were that easy. I bet you a great many parents who make the very difficult decision to medicate their children wish it were that easy, as much as they love their kids.

And yes, I am answering expressing my own interest.

I think it is easy to get confused between general trends and specific situations. I have always taken the position that parents are in a difficult spot when they are getting pressure from all sides to medicate, to not medicate, to whip their child into line, to stop being so hard on him/her, and so forth. I think it is up to each of us to make up our own mind about what we want for our children, and what we believe about what is helpful or not helpful.

That being said, I do find the general trend toward looking at medications as an automatic or sufficient solution for complex emotional or behavioral issues. This is a problem I have with PROFESSIONALS and the lack of information and the lack of honesty with which they present tretment options to parents. I believe we have the right to be fully informed of all the potential risks and all the proposed benefits of any treatment, as well as all the possible alternative treatments, including the option of no treatment at all. That someone should have to come here (as another poster has just yesterday) to find out if aggressive behavior can be a side effect of Adderall is simply appalling. There is no excuse for professionals not fully informing parents of the full range of facts and options around children’s behavior problems. I know of many stories of parent being pressured to medicate children against their better judgment, without discussing the wide range of non-medical alternatives that exist. I find this also inexcusable.

The real truth, as is borne out by this discussion, is that the professionals don’t agree among themselves regarding either the causes or the best treatments for any of the “mental disorders” listed in the DSM-IV. That leaves us as parents holding the bag, getting pressure from people from one school of thinking or another trying to persuade us to take their viewpoint, not because it will be helpful to us or our kids but because it will make them feel better about their own views or meet their own needs (including sometimes financial needs) better.

I think this board should be about empowering parents to make their own choices, and I think that facts can be presented without stigmatizing anyone. I think the best way to de-stigmatize the entire area is to just admit that it is an area where we as a society don’t really have the answers. That way, we can all be open to new ideas and approaches and can honestly evaluate the existing approaches and see how credible they appear to us. In the end, we as parents are the ones that have to live with our decisions, and knowing the difficulty involved in this area, I don’t think that anyone who honestly makes every effort to make the best choice they can should be open to criticism.

I am glad I have been able to sort my way through this maze and to help my kids grow up happy and healthy. I want to share what I have learned with anyone that is interested. Criticizing or stigmatizing parents or children is harmful. Expecting professionals to be honest and forthright and not to bully parents into accepting treatments or diagnoses they don’t feel comfortable with is essential. I think the trends Brian is talking about have a lot more to do with the latter than the former.

–- Steve

“So, to answer your question about “Where’s the interest?”, it’s not on what’s been frequently referred to as the errornet.”

JohnBT tells us that his personal brush with empirical evidence suggests to him that “most people” prefer to get their information about the ‘ADHD’-drug related issues I’ve already listed “face-to-face from a professional”.

Given that the “professionals” have already fully come clean (what else could they do) about their total ignorance on the cause and cure of these groups of symptoms in children (not to be confused with methods of perhaps throwing the baby out with the bathwater in prescribing sedative palliatives), why would that be seen as a correct course of action? The professionals don’t know anything first hand. There is zero science to quote from. Who knows is the parents who live this dream 24/7/365. The professionals get all their information from those parents (from where else could they get it), yet JohnBT appears to scorn such unprofessional input. I wonder why?

If the professionals were so sure about ‘ADHD’-drug issues, there would be a lot less, “Well, try another 10 mg and let’s see what happens”, etc., going on.

I see this issue the same as I would if 2.5 million children had mysterious toothaches that the dentists couldn’t adequately either explain or fix. A lot of the children could probably be expected to sit still and be quiet if those toothaches were combated with strong enough painkillers. However, the tooth would still be bad (just as the ‘ADHD’, and whatever is causing it, is still right there under the drugs) and there would be repercussions down the line for the neglected tooth. I don’t know if there will be repercussions down the line for these 2.5 million children (if we say “ADHD childhood” is 5-18, that’s an average of 178,000 new cases coming online each year - probably more), but if I’d made the decision to commit my child to long term potent drugs, I would be looking for all the pertinent information I could find on the subject, both before and during. And I’d go to the source, not the professional middleman, whose business is based on prescribing drugs and who must be suffering more than a little professional embarrassment at this point. A professional who knows next to nothing about a condition except how to sedate the patient is verging on the decidely amateur. And what’s the chances of any of those professionals, given nothing pertinent appearing in their medical journals, from voluntarily reversing their opinions as to the effectiveness/safety of the drugs?

If 2.5 million children in the US had a mysterious, unexplainable, uncurable toothache, I believe more would be done to find a cure or an explanation if those children were all allowed to fidget and make noise without drugs.

Now this, again by JohnBT:

“Having worked with individuals with disabilities, and some of their family members, for over 30 years…”

Are you saying that you believe “ADHD” to be a disability? And could you explain what you’re doing on the “errornet” with the great uninformed masses, given that you have 30 years experience as a “professional”?

Brian,

I am going to cautiously agree with you. I feel that using ADHD meds is sort of like using a bandaid for a tumor or something (masking symptoms but the underlying problem will never go away). I honestly know how parents feel at needing immediate help, though. And I see little children in schools who cannot function without it. So I support the choice parents make at this time. I have a grown child on anxiety medication, so I do understand that when you are desperate, you are thankful for any kind of help.

HOWEVER, where I really agree with you is that I feel that ADHD is a set of symptoms that may be able to be remediated in a non-drug manner. I think the drug companies put lots of money into research to support the use of their products, but who is putting money into alternative treatments? The problem is, it might require a series of treatments such as sensory integration, cognitive therapies, vision therapy, etc. I think it would be an expensive, long term process requiring a high time commitment as well. I think you have to face the fact that some parents will choose the pill as a quick fix regardless. There are certainly parents out there right now going the non-drug route and doing it fairly successfully. But as I said, not everyone has the time and/or money to do it. Beth from FL is a notable example on this list who has chosen alternative therapies and has succeeded in keeping her child off meds and he is doing well in school.

Even if a set of therapies is found to be successful with a wide range of ADHD children, I don’t think it will fall in the education realm to do the remediation. If it stays in the healthcare realm, who will be able to afford it? So I see it as a real problem with little hope of being solved anytime soon. And that is tragic.

Thanks, Janis! That’s what I’ve been getting at. It is way too easy for the “professionals” to provide whatever kind of educational structure they see fit, and when a child reacts badly, to put the onus on the child to be different. The parent is then in a terrible bind. Do they go along with the program, even if they feel uncomfortable with it? Or do they stand up and risk being viewed as a maniac or a troublemaker, and even having the school react against their child as an unconscious form of retaliation. This is a VERY difficult spot for a parent to be in. We were fortunate in that we a) were reasonably well educated about ADHD issues prior to school, b) both had some professional training in behavior managment of difficult children, and c) had the resources (both financial and personal) to homeschool. We were also fortunate to live in Portland, OR where there are any number of alternative schools within the public school system that cater to kids with different needs and interests. Even with all of that available, we still ended up homeschooling our oldest for four years, and helped to create a charter school for our youngest that meets his needs very well. Neither of my “ADHD” kids were medicated, but we had to do a lot of work to find appropriate alternatives.

One of the best kept secrets in the ADHD research is that kids who fit the ADHD label have been shown in studies to stand out like the proverbial sore thumb in a “regular classroom” but are VIRTUALLY INDISTINGUISHABLE from “normal” children in what they call an “informal classroom” where they have more control over when they start and stop their activities, and over which activities they choose to do when. The optimum setup appears to be a set of workstations with directions on what to do, where the children circulate from one workstation to another based on what time of the day it is and which things they are interested in. This may work really poorly for some kids, but for the bulk of the ADHD-diagnosed, it appears to magically make them appear “normal”! So why aren’t we creating classrooms like this across the country for our highly active youngsters? I am surmising it is because it is a) inconvenient, b) expensive, and c) doesn’t make easy profits for anyone. But if you look at it from the point of view of the ADHD children, they would LOVE to have this kind of setting. That’s what our charter school is like, and Kevin actually said he was BORED on spring break and WANTED to get back to school so he will have interesting things to do!!

So again, I empathize with parents in this situation and understand why people make different decisions, based on their resources and on their family values. It is the professionals who neglect their duty to do what is best for children that receive the brunt of my ire. There is really a need to explore different options and create alternatives and opportunities to support families who DON’T want to go down the “business as usual” track that is offered at most schools. Now, I understand that teachers are in a bind as well, they are being expected to train their kids like performing monkeys so they don’t get on the “bad school” list and lose funding, and they have too many kids and not enough time. But really, the kids have to come first, and I think it is time for us all to get together, parents AND professionals, and let the decision-makers know that this is NOT good enough! We need more alternatives, more flexibility, smaller classrooms, and better training and support for teachers. In the meanwhile, I hope that teachers will begin to appreciate that parents are the BEST source of information and ideas on how to help their child, and that parents who resist the idea of medicating their child are NOT irresposible, ill-informed, or hostile. They are trying to do what is best for their child, and should be supported in making these difficult decisions in the best way they can, even if it is inconvenient for you as a teacher. Some will choose to medicate, some will not, and it’s your job to work with all of them, whether you are a teacher, doctor, psychologist, counselor, or whatever. I support parents making informed choices, and I hope everyone who reads this will do so, as well.

I think it is also important to remember that not all children diagnosed with ADHD are active. Some are what the medical community label ADHD-inattentive. One of my sons has been diagnosed with ADHD-inattentive. He zoned out rather than jumped around and certainly never created any problems.

Now we have, as Janis noted, been successful in avoiding medication while at the same time getting to some of the root causes of his inattentiveness. He, like most kids I know diagnosed with ADHD of any sort, had clear motor issues. Remediating these motor issues through therapy (particular Interactive Metronome and Neuronet) made a fundamental difference in his processing. Still though he zones out more than most but it is at a manageable level.

But I will tell you that there was one summer when the tutor couldn’t teach him and the teachers during the year had raised serious concerns about his attention. I finally took him to the pediatrician who sent me to the neurologist. I am pretty anti-medication—had all three kids without any sort of pain relievers. But I had reached the point of seeing my own child slip off because he was unteachable and I was questioning whether I was hurting my own child with my dogma. As it all turned out, we never medicated, despite getting a prescription, because we did IM and more NN that summer which made a big difference. I had intended to try medication that fall but wanted a baseline. I had two teachers he’d had before tell me they couldn’t believe it was the same kid, which encouraged me to give another school year a try without medication.

I guess what I am saying is that not all kids with ADHD fit the active profile that can be managed by the way the classroom is organized. We must not forget that. These inattentive kids can be more more difficult to help. I am also saying that even then there are alternatives that can improve processing and attention, but not everyone has the time, motivation, or money. Frankly, it takes a lot of all of three for inattentive kids. And also, I know from reading these boards, for some of these inattentive kids, therapy may still not do enough and medication may still be necessary for them to approach having a normal life.

Beth

Yes. There’s no way that the decisions would be easy or clear-cut. And I would never advocate adopting any long term course of action based solely on the fact that some other poster’s child had success with it. I believe that our instincts and intuition are more finely tuned than many people think. More so, probably, in the mothers. I would say that if a mother (or father, or both) instinctively feel that medication is the way to go with their child or children, then they should certainly concentrate their efforts and learning in that area. However, if your intuition is nagging at you regarding that decision, and only circumstance and external pressure are making you go against your “better judgment”, it might be worth revisiting the issue. And that applies to both the decisions to either medicate or not medicate.

My own instinct tells me that something is terribly wrong with the numbers. Human physiology should be perfectly designed for the times and circumstances in which we live. You can probably agree with that last statement whether you are a Darwinist or a Creationist or, like me, believe that God’s creation was an ongoing dynamic set in motion (evolution of man from primitive man and built in adaptability to changing circumstances) and not a one-off job. That’s not to say that aberrations don’t occur - perhaps, they’re even necessary in a scheme of things that we’ll never come close to understanding. However, when the aberrations start to make up a noticeable chunk (10% of boys between 10 and 12), with experts claiming no circumstantially or environmentally justified cause, we’re either heading the way of the dinosaurs (and very rapidly) or the numbers are somehow skewed…or the experts are wrong.

If your child is among those statistics, you have yet another hard, can’t-go-back-and-salvage-anything parenting decision to make (like should both parents work and provide materials and opportunities at the expense of other benefits to be gained by being present in the home). It’s obvious that nobody except the parent has the right to directly influence those kinds of decisions. However, in making those decisions, we have to know that we are the responsible parties. Whatever the expert opinion, whatever the external pressure, in the end, we make the decision and we are responsible for the outcome. A hard fact of life.

I believe any adverse outcome of your decision to medicate/not medicate will be easier to handle if you can at least justify your reasoning, to both your child and yourself. Single parents of scant means may have it easiest of all in that regard. Sometimes it’s just about survival. However, for parents who really do have a choice, I’d recommend gathering togather a “defense” for your decision before you make it, or now if you’ve already made it. Who knows, perhaps you’ll stumble upon some new information that could be helpful to your child or an entire future generation of children.

I do think our present life style is responsible for some of those numbers. My parents had a good friend (now deceased) who had endless energy. I remember thinking he couldn’t sit still and I was a child of no more than 10 or 11 (we moved when I was 11). My parents tell me he grew up on a farm and his way of approaching things was never a problem. Not so for their middle daughter who was raised in suburb.

I also have read studies that say that kids who spend a lot of time outdoors (it was something about being outdoors as compared to exercise alone) had better attention. I think about the computer/ipod/game generation.

Beth

That’s the direction my thoughts on the subject take also.

For me, there is no question that the human brain is slowly evolving as we move on. That’s why all the geniuses of millenia couldn’t conceive of notions such as harnessing the power of electricity.

I wonder if we don’t move along that line in fits and starts, rather than smoothly, and that, perhaps, our human physiology and nervous systems don’t always keep pace with our mental evolution. We may not always be able to handle our intellectual progress right away.

Perhaps, as a species, we’re not ready for the “information age” or the “technological revolution”. It’s no misconception, we ARE moving at a faster pace than ever before (I just read an artlcle about the how CDs are a thing of the past!) Thousands of years worth of “normal” have been replaced by a new normalcy almost overnight. How anyone can suppose that today’s environment isn’t having an adverse effect on ALL humans, children and adults, whether showing symptoms or not, is beyond me.

If the experts agree that a “change in circumstances” produces stress on the human organism, why can’t they seem to apply that to periods of more than one day?

The last sixty years’ “change in circumstances” have produced the results we see today (have we all forgotten how we used to fear that something bad would come out of it all?). However, we continue to try to parent and teach along the lines of our own parents’ and teachers’ examples. The way I see it, we have two choices: We can either go back (but how?) or we can adapt through the development and use of new parental and educational strategies. The most useful strategies will probably be found to be the most innovative, off-the-wall ideas we can come up with, coupled with as much of what worked in the past as today’s society will allow. Giving the whole world a valium is not the answer for me.

Steve,

I enjoyed your post very much! I agree that many ADHD kids simply do not fit the typical public school mold. They can certainly thrive in other settings. I sometimes evaluate homeschooled children with learning difficulties, and I have seen some with probable ADHD unmedicated. A little girl I recently evaluated was literally climbing on her chair as she read a selection to me. She somehow kept her head still while the rest of her body was in motion! Now that didn’t bother me, I was interested to see how she’d manage. She had lovely manners and was a very bright child with some reading problems. I asked her mom if she was in motion like that at home, and she said yes. This child would be one who’d be miserable in a regular class, because she’d be constantly in trouble! But at home, where they can give her frequent breaks and more active assignments at times, she does okay without meds.

One thing is for sure, though, there are no easy answers!

This is all great stuff, folks! Thanks for your excellent posts!

I agree that the comments here are excellent.

It looks like my son will likely be placed in a non-public special ed school for next school year (we’ll see what the County IEP committee decides). That is good news, since smaller class sizes and behavioral therapy will be extremely helpful for him. Also, the County school system doesn’t have any viable alternatives for him at this point. One school we toured expressed a willingness to work with him without medication (expressing that it’s the parents’ decision); another appeared to emphasize that the school psychiatrist would decide, nothing about parent decision-making. We are looking at a couple of other schools and their philosophy on the medication issue.

I think it’s clear from my earlier posts that my son has more than just ADHD, or rather, he has ADHD with a strong impulsiveness/activity component (aggression has been the big issue). So my situation is rather unique, as each child is unique. Steve makes great points about what I call cookie-cutter education that to me shortchanges a lot of kids who have a right to a free and appropriate education.

In terms of diagnosis and medication, I have adopted a philosophy that is actually based on a statement that I believe Brian made a while ago — the professionals are basically guessing. Forgive me Brian if this wasn’t you. But the pros are making their best guess, and it’s up to the parents, who know their child the best, to do what they think is best for their child. I’ve had about three or four different diagnoses for my son. The constant diagnosis has been ADHD (with which I agree). But I’ve heard ODD and mood disorder NOS. I don’t see where either of those really fit with him. But testing turned up significant social and emotional delays, which was an aha moment for me since that does fit the most, besides the ADHD. That also vindicated my psychiatrist’s thoughts. I personally had been thinking ADHD and anxiety along with the delays. But you see how the guesswork can vary.

I don’t disagree that pros are quick to medicate. Not all of them (my son’s psych. is more cautious, so I value her opinion), but many of them. I also believe that in general, medication has its place in moderation. But I hope that with all the media attention on the ADHD stimulants and Straterra, as well as the mood drugs, more studies will focus on alternatives to medication.

I [i]have [/i]said in the past that the pros are basically guessing. I haven’t changed that opinion. I think we can see where any of these problems stem from when we consider that “ADHD” is just a collection of symptoms rather than a recognised medical condition, per se. If any four out of 20 (or whatever) symptoms can be dubbed “ADHD”, how can we expect to make any progress in discovering what’s wrong and fixing what’s wrong with an individual child. Perhaps, there is no “conspiracy” to peddle “ADHD” drugs, but there certainly seems to be more effort put into that practice than into making those drugs redundant.

No entity or group should be allowed to rob your child of his/her individuality and right to individually tailored, medical care, for whatever motive. Who among us would permit our doctor to get away with diagnosing “men’s trouble” or “women’s trouble” or “stuff that happens as you get older” in our own cases? Why then, do we allow the equivalent of that vague ineptitude in our children’s cases. A diagnosis of “ADHD” is like a diagnosis of “runny nose, coughing and sore throat, with or without concommitant tiredness, disorder” or a “non-beating heart disorder” as a cause of death. And why do we allow schoolteachers to muscle in on this medical guessing game and play doctor with our children’s lives? It would appear that the medical profession don’t react quite so quickly to “practicing without a license” when the lay practitioners are uncritical of their ineptitude, in agreement with them as regards their vague diagnoses, and pro-drugs. Can you begin to imagine what would happen to a principal or school that publicly announced that children who [b]took [/b]”ADHD” drugs would [b]not [/b]be allowed to attend?

For me, “ADHD” means: “stuff we don’t quite understand that happens to children these days and interferes with schoolwork”. I don’t accept, and never have accepted, that diagnosis for my own son. He displays symptoms that coincide with some of the symptoms on the “ADHD” cafeteria menu (as do most human beings). However, he is not suffering from symptoms but something that’s not quite right in his brain that manifests itself in symptoms. If the guy in the white coat can’t tell me what that something is, and yearly bleats on about studies that never intended to find the answer, he should just get the **** out of the way. I’m “unqualified” but I know enough about the world in general to state confidently that my son’s symptoms are an effect, and that that effect has a cause, and that that cause has a remedy or not, as the case may be. However, I fail to see how isolating the effect and attempting to palliate it is going to help him in the long run.

So, I’m all for the parents’ right to decide. I’m against that decision being coerced in any way by those perceived to be in authority. I don’t know if drugs are the correct way to go or not, but I just can’t bring myself to give my son a drug that is labeled as effective in stopping a nose from running - or any other unexplained, symptom-altering drug for a condition that doesn’t even exist beyond a description of the symptoms it’s supposed to engender.

What the medical establishment says, in effect, is: “ADHD” is both the cause of, and caused by, “ADHD”. Is it any wonder they don’t know which end is up?

The drugs may alleviate the symptoms (do they? does drinking alleviate the symptoms of depression or cause them?), but it will be the drug-free child who will the first to be cured. Who else but a drug-free child will be able to take part in tests on alternatives, or display a significant reduction in symptoms due to the administration of an alternative to drugs? Imagine if the 2.5 million children on drugs, and the possibly millions more not on drugs, were made drug-free and subjected, in small groups, to every possible permutation of alternative solutions we could think of. Your child tries this, mine tries that. Could we not find the answer in short order? Could we not at least have the satisfaction of finally knowing that no answer existed.

Why don’t the good burghers of Hamelin appear to be interested in such a scheme?

You got me with that one, Brian! I was literally laughing out loud! It does sound pretty silly when applied to a well-understood pheonmenon. I do think that the beginning of knowledge is admitting what you don’t know, and that would be a great starting point for further study of the “ADHD” phenomenon.

Yeah, that “non-beating heart disorder” did it for me, too! :lol:

I fear that until someone starts looking at the neurodevelopmental aspects of these children, we’ll never get beyond the surface. I think people like Nancy Rowe of Neuronet are on to something, but it takes time, effort, and money to apply what she recommends.

People today want a quick fix. And I don’t think there will be a quick fix for ADHD.

One of my neighbors has a son who was classic ADHD. He was hyper, impulsive, annoying, and behind in school. They held him back one year at school which helped the academics but none of the rest. Then started doing martial arts and it was like a miracle for him. He is a different kid now—even his social skills have improved.

Now my own son’s motor planning deficts were too severe, at least when we tried, for the martial arts.

Beth

Beth, you hit the nail right on the head with martial arts. My son has made significant progress since going to a karate aftercare (which also provides a weekend one-on-one lesson for him). I see some maturity, and he likes showing off his moves. The added bonus is that the aftercare is very tolerant of him — the Master does not use negative language when describing my son. He calls him “playful.” Many people sing the praises of martial arts, and rightfully so.

I can understand that keeping a child back doesn’t really resolve any issues, unless academics are a problem. It would have been a nightmare for my son (he tested into kindergarten early, and I took much flak from the school for allowing him to attend K this year with his “issues”). As if he wouldn’t have had the same issues starting K next fall, and on top of that delaying the help he needs by a year.

“Given that the “professionals” have already fully come clean (what else could they do) about their total ignorance on the cause and cure of these groups of symptoms in children (not to be confused with methods of perhaps throwing the baby out with the bathwater in prescribing sedative palliatives), why would that be seen as a correct course of action? The professionals don’t know anything first hand. There is zero science to quote from. Who knows is the parents who live this dream 24/7/365. The professionals get all their information from those parents (from where else could they get it), yet JohnBT appears to scorn such unprofessional input. I wonder why?”

Boy am I sorry I just now got back to see this. Talk about a rant.

1. Total ignorance? Maybe they should just tell the students to be quiet, sit in the back of the room, and do what they can - you know, just like 50 years ago.

2. “The professionals don’t know anything first hand.” - Nonsense, you don’t know all of the professionals, or their children, or the extent of their involvement. I don’t either, but based on what you’ve said I have to believe I’ve met many more - some good and some bad.

3. “Yet JohnBT appears to scorn such unprofessional input.” - I did no such thing - your bias and attitude is really showing on this one. What in the world were you thinking when you wrote that? For more than 30 years I have trusted in, and preached, a client-centered philosophy and practice. BTW, I’m a vocational counselor by training and trade with extensive experience in just about every area except blindness.

John

JohnBT.

Back on page 1, you rolled in with:

[b]”Having worked with individuals with disabilities, and some of their family members, for over 30 years I can tell you that most of them don’t use discussion forums on the Internet as their first source of info - they prefer working face-to-face with professionals. So, to answer your question about “Where’s the interest?”, it’s not on what’s been frequently referred to as the errornet.”[/b]

If that’s not “professional” scorn directed at the people who take the time to post ideas and information and/or read those posts on this forum, I don’t know what is.

I stand by my other remarks also.

No professional is curing “ADHD”, either in the doctor’s office or the school.

No professional has clue 1 about what causes “ADHD” or what constitutes its optimal treatment (careful now, if you respond that no two cases are alike you’ll make my case for the non-existence of “ADHD” as a condition).

No professional is guaranteeing any course of treatment or any positive result - either medical or remedial. Everyone is “trying” this or that.

It would seem obvious that professionals, when not being also parents of children displaying the symptons grouped as “ADHD”, would have no first hand knowledge of such a child outside of the controlled remunerated setting of the doctor’s office or classroom. If they are also a parent, then they have that first hand knowledge by dint of parenthood, and not their job. No doctor or teacher really knows or gets my son. Why would they? They spend all the time they have with him myopically looking at the “problem”. My son is a million times more than the sum of his geniosyncracies. When the professionals begin to accept that fact we might get some where with “ADHD”. When people accept that fact, we might get somewhere with this world. We don’t need so much to fix symptoms as to tap into the genius that runs beneath them. Sometimes I wonder if “normal” is synonymous with “Neanderthal”.

There is zero science to quote from as regards the cause, cure or optimal care of the symptoms known as “ADHD”.

I’d say all that pretty much amounts to total ignorance on the subject on the part of professionals. And I’m very happy to have the chance to tell you that. It might serve to break through any “professional” pride and groupthink that you may be bogged down in and help you to revisit the issue from the beginning.

And again, are you saying that “ADHD” is a disability - professionally speaking?

Wow. Is it always so negative here?

No, just certain posters. I generally leave these guys alone. Sooner or later they will cross the line and a moderator will erase their posts. Just ignore them and read the more productive threads.

No, it’s not always negative. Personally, I pick out what I want to respond to and try to be polite. But with anything, sometimes emotions or passions get in the way.

Unprofessionally speaking, I am saying that ADHD is a disability to a certain degree. If the condition (or symptoms, or whatever) keeps you from learning, whether in a traditional or other classroom or keeps you from interacting socially on an overall positive level, then ADHD is disabling. Until we have a public education system that regularly includes alternative “regular” classroom settings and teaching methods for ADHD kids and others who could benefit, then ADHD will remain a disability. The real question is SHOULD ADHD be a disability. I don’t know, but certainly a variety of treatments and educational alternatives need to be explored heavily.

In my mind, it is inexcusable that ADHD children have these choices in the public education system: to make do in a regular classroom with few accommodations, to go into special education, to go to an accommodating private school (and believe me, the accommodations are limited there) or be home-schooled. No small class sizes in regular education. Almost no public Montessori schools (I’m talking about Maryland), and the ones require a lottery to get into. No public single-gender classes or schools. No alternative teaching methods in a regular education classroom. No, just track them into special ed because they can’t sit criss-cross applesauce and the regular schools can’t cope.

And the “real interest” should be in how to best educate a variety of children. Cookie-cutter education isn’t very effective. Not anymore, when you consider current student performance overall and the reaction to NCLB.

Vent’s over! :>

To our readers,

After reviewing this thread, we decided to limit the posts to those that discuss the topic originally introduced.

Learning disabilities and ADHD can be very emotional subjects, and it is understandable that our users will respond passionately to each other — particularly when the welfare of children is at stake. We appreciate that spirited discussions will take place. However, if an issue arises where we hear that any user does not feel they are being treated with respect and care, we will take the time to investigate and make a judgment on posts.

We have a really great community here, and we appreciate that we rarely need to set limits on posts. Let’s keep our positive spirit of community, support, and exchange of information going.

Thanks,
LD OnLine Staff