Help !!!

You obviously know what you’re talking about.

Umm Steve, you homeschool program? There hands? Little man, I’ll match my homeschooled kids against your pupils anyday. My excuse is a sticky antiquated laptop. What’s yours? Ignorance? Your last comment would explain a lot of your “advice” on this board. We homeschoolers in tandem with advocates like socks plan to drive you and your ilk out of education entirely. Pack up your desk.

I think everyone on this board has said it all. It’s a pity that cowards like you haven’t the courage to come back and take your punishment. Too used to bullying small children and parents. But thank you for providing the perfect illustration for why people homeschool.
By way my spelling is fine. My typing sucks, however. Thank you for asking.
It was a pleasure driving you crazy. Hope to do it again sometime.

Not a complex idea. I think everyone has strengths and weaknesses in how they learn.

I also think there are even quite a few people with a wide variety of lds out there who don’t even know it because they are not issues that are severe enough to affect school performance or these people have strengths that help them to mask their deficits.

My thinking is that lds and even gifts are on a continuum. We have a vast capacity to improve all areas of the brains functioning.

I try not to get too hung up on labels especially where children are concerned.

I just would like to see more emphasis on research based interventions that can help specific deficits.

It is hard for me to wrap my arms around this dyslexia idea. My son had severe reading problems coming out of first grade. He could easily have been labeled dyslexic. The school tryed reading recovery without success (reading recovery is a program with many harsh critics, I have yet to find any scientific evidence that it works) I used phonographix and he now reads above grade level in second grade.

I just would hate to see anyone asign too broad a label on their children. Get down to the nitty gritty of their deficits and remediate with all that is available. This is a process we continue with that has already allowed as a string of successes.

Just some thoughts

You need to wait for that report my guess is that the coding score is not 9 but 6. Since you are changing schools it seems pointless to invest much more time convincing them of anything. I would contact the new school and make an appointment to talk to the principal and state your concerns and that you would like to set up a study meeting at the beginning of the year and present your report.

I would spend time over the summer doing intervention. Use a multi-sensory appoach to teaching letter and number recognition and work on phenemic awareness.

Try to enroll him in 1st when you talk to the principal.

If he makes great strides over the summer then 1st would work out. If he is making strides but not enough you might to benefit from 1st grade language arts you might want to homeschool in morning and send him to school for the afternoon..

When you get the scores post them and people will comment.

Helen

The first thing your wont to do is DO NOT GIVE UP! be a bit** and get what you need for you child. I grow up with problems like this and it sucked The teachers said they can’t help, the Dr’s said the same thing until my parents pushed and they found out just what they needed to. Now I’m working on seval books to help people like you and other ones in genral to show that anything can be doen. I also have A.D.D. and L.D. and when people so no to me that I can’t do something I push harded then ever and don’t care what they say. Every one has an openion, so when you meet the right teacher or Dr. who will do the right thing it will open the door for you and your child and make a world a difrents. NEVER GIVE UP!

Dear advocating mom,

I can understand your concern and how much you want to get your child the help that he needs, especially with the dyslexic tendencies being noted. If it were my child and I had your previous experience as a teacher, I would work with him at home over the summer. Research some of the techniques available for strengthening his fine-motor skills and coding skills. There are computer programs available at very little cost at your local Wal-Mart such as those of the Jump Start and Reader Rabbit variety. You can also order a number of software programs from Amazon.com at a good price. My 5 year old in school likes the computer version of Zooboomafoo. I suggest that you work with your son on tracing, copying designs, cutting with scissors or even stringing blocks or other objects. If you have a garden, get him to help you with sorting/snapping the green beans and such.Begin now strengthing these areas by getting him to help you set the dinner table. (You put out the plates and cups. He does the silverware and helps to fold the paper napkins.)

You can also probably find information through your state Board of Education as to the Qualitative Core Curriculum (QCC’s) for 1st grade and for kindergarten. You can also find information regarding the CRCT objectives on the internet. They are based on the QCC’s and they should give you a better idea of what will be potentially asked of him next year in the first grade.

I think that you should feel good that he has been tested and that now you do have some information to which you can compare his progress next year. I really wouldn’t rush to have him “labeled”. Some of what you are seeing could be maturational and some could be due to a lack of physical experience. If he has not been very active and has been more sedentary, then he may temporarily be a little “behind” due to lack of physical activity. Get him some games, floor puzzles, finger paints, giant alphabet letters that he can play with in the sandbox. Focus on offering him activities that you know will cause him to use his weaker areas and that will expose him to his alphabet. When my daughter was your child’s age, I labeled the objects in her room with their beginning letter. Her bed had a giant “B” on its headboard. The lamp in her room had a giant “L” on it and so forth. Whenever we went driving, we played a game where we tried to see who could call out (identify) the most letters or be the first to find a particular letter. I might pick the letter “S” knowing that I would soon be approaching a STOP sign. When we went to McDonald’s, I made sure to point out the giant M and the large D. I really believe that if you stay alert to his classroom progress and keep in touch with his teacher, he will get the help that he needs. Best wishes.

Hi Ad Mom,

I’m sure you will be “laughing” by this time next year as the saying goes this side of pond. Who knows you may decide to get Lindamood-Bell training and become a LIPS tutour and earn enough to stay at home with kids while rescuing young lives. Our tutour sat by a Canadian mum who was so worn out trying to help her 16 yr old son who was brilliatn but couldn’t read that her family had sent her to England to visit sister and have a rest. When she heard what tutour was doing and about Lindamood-Bell it was the first hope she’d had in years. Wo our tutour and LIPS I have no doubt my son would be in the same fix.
Anyway just a suggestion but this is how I explained his dyslexia to my son.
We’ve used computer games like Jump Start and Reader Rabbit Math and several times we’ve had to download programs before the game would run on the computer. So he understood this analogy. He was born wo certain downloads already installed in his brain. Other kids were. That doesn’t make them better or smarter-just lucky. He has to load reading manually which is more work and more time but which makes him stronger.
I heard him using this explanation with one of his friends the other day to explain why he’s not in school anymore, but then he added on his own he has great downloads like imagination, and inventing things. They then went on to explain the downloads each had, The other boy had playing football and imagination…
This just seemed to help explain why his brain wouldn’t do what he told it to and then it wasn’t so scarey for him. He could control what happened to him.

I don’t think it is developmental lag based on Advoc. mom’s description. Poor fine motor and coding are red flags for dyslexia especially if there is normal development in the other areas.

i am surprised at the dialogue that this link started-probably a lot to do with my suggestion that you wait and give your little guy a chance to do some maturing!!
my final comments- and i wasn’t back to take my punishment becasue i was cooking for a girl guide camp.(slept in tents and the temp was freezing!)did have quite the read when i got back last night!!
my final thought on this and the motto that i try to live by:

Take what you like but consider the rest.

people seem so quick to jump up and criticize that i wonder if they were able to think about things and find something that might be useful

and in closing-i don’t think name calling and put downs are serving any useful purpose but to show your need to develop some tolerance of opinions that differ from your own.

charlene

Just wanted to say, my older son was in kgarten and 1st half of first grade in a TX school, El Paso, kgarten teacher was all warm and fuzzy, nothing was noted as any problem, he was passed on to 1st grade without knowledge of all letter sounds (he thought w made the duh sound). He was given 30 different words a week to know (10 reading, 10 phonic, and 10 spelling). He was failing, they sort of made his 1st grade teacher into the reading teacher, he was one of about 5 kids in his class that needed a reading teacher in 1st grade. He was diagnosed add/inattentive and capd during this time, ritalin helped but he was still having trouble.

We moved to Florida midyear where he was suddenly on grade level and thank goodness it didn’t seem he needed a reading teacher because they didn’t have the money for one(I’m being sarcastic here). Was passed on to 2nd grade. That summer we moved to VA for 2nd - 5th grades.

Anyway, long story shorter, my son was a non reader in 2nd grade, was tested in VA and I was told he was a late bloomer. In 4th grade he was tested again and found qualified for sp.ed., he is now a 7th grader in reg. classes with sp.ed assistance. He was in reading classes until the end of 4th grade when he finally went to resource room pullout. By the end of 5th grade with help from the sp.ed teacher he was finally somewhat of a reader. Both evaluations were initiated by the teachers with my support.

I don’t buy the late bloomer stuff anymore and neither should you. If you know that problems exist in your family and you see signs in your son then pursue interventions now, even if you can’t get school to do it. Early is definitely better than later. My other thing is that I do think my son would have been better off if he had repeated kgarten, I would have at least had a better chance at getting my stuff together to help him. I was clueless about all this stuff at the time even though I asked lots of questions of the 1st grade teachers.

One other thing, looking at the timeline of my son’s schooling, I think he benefited from the revisions done in 1997 which finally included adhd as part of OHI as he had no specific learning disability, he was affected by his add and capd. I hope this helps some.

For you late bloomer advocates,
Yeah, I know kids develop differently on their own timelines but parents know their own kids best and know when something isn’t right. I had high expectations for my very bright son, I had no clue he would have any problems in school because he was such a smart, inventive preschooler who was old beyond his years. Surprise! Even genius level IQ kids can have ld’s. So you folks who think waiting is the answer, it must always be on an individual basis and with input from parents who know their kids best. There can’t ever be a blanket statement about kids because they are individuals too.Just my experience.

Respectfully Charlene there is no room on this board for tolerating opinions that include doing nothing when your instincts tell you something is wrong. If there were this bb would dissolve into the same kind of pablum available on most of the other boards out there. I value this board because here there is no prevaricating about the bush. You get the real info you need to act - I may not agree with all the actions, but that is not my business and I do not presume to judge that situation and need. If your need is more to feel good and warm and fuzzy then you probably won’t feel confortable here- at least not until you’re a veteran of the ld wars. But I guarantee you’ll come back when you’re desperate for hard info.
But let me give you a handpat here. Reread most of posts. The namecalling and rancour were started by a different poster being deliberately provocative and he got flamed- not you. I gather you’re an elementary teacher now trying to get help for your child. You are about to enter a whole new world. Accept that most of the info you have at this moment is no longer useful to you. You have much more to learn on this board than teach. Hopefully that will change and you’ll be a much better teacher for it. There’s a Zen proverb about an accolyte coming to a Zen master for training. The master says first we’ll have tea and begins pouring him a cup. He pours until it overflows and spills to the table and then the floor until the accolyte finally cries “stop Sensei the cup is too full. ” The master replies, ” You are that cup. Come back when you are ready to learn.” Do not presume you are the only person on this board to have read Piaget.

Thank you so much to all of you for your suggestions and opinions. They have given me a lot to think about. As a former teacher, who by the way was the special ed teacher of choice, I see things much more clearly from this side of the plate. I always tried very hard to follow IEP’s because I knew that is what I would want a teacher to do if it were my child. Besides the kids actually LEARN when the IEP methods are followed and the children can actually feel good about themselves. It frightens me to know that there are the sit back and wait 1st grade teachers out there. In Texas law, it states that teachers are supposed to actively be looking for children with reading disabilities, in fact the actual law states “the earlier the better.” What a shame that our schools have no idea what to do with kids like my son. My husband and I always have felt like it is the schools’ job to provide a basic education for our children and our job to challenge them and give them experiences in which to build their knowledge. I have found out that I will have to educate my child if I want him to read on grade level. My little square peg fits nowhere in their round holes. I’m saddened that my profession has let not only me down, but most importantly all the other children. I mourn for all the children being retained who are really LD. I’m saddened by the fact that their parents don’t know what is available to them and that their children will endure lifelong consequences from the public school’s inability to educate different children. My child will attend public schools next year because I have a 4 year old and a very rambunctous 19 month old and I simply don’t have a quiet place to educate my 6 year old. I will however be his advocate, and I will encourage the school to recognize his strengths and promote them and also recognize his weaknesses and remediate. I will be a bi***, and that is not my nature. I dislike confrontation, but I will not allow the school to intimidate me. Good luck to all of you and again, thanks from the bottom of my heart for the experiences you have had and your invaluable advice. advocating mom wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> I had my 6 year old privately tested due to the school’s
> unwillingness to test him. He has been immersed in
> literature since birth and had great difficulty learning the
> sound/symbols of the alphabet this year. He attends public
> school in Texas and participated in the district’s 1/2 day
> kindergarten program. The school did screen him and said he
> had dyslexic tendencies but wanted to wait to label him.
> Dyslexia is prevalent in my family. His fine motor is poor
> and he has a club grip on his pencil. We met with his
> teacher, the dyslexia teacher and the counselor and were told
> by the counselor that they,”didn’t know what to do with our
> child.” (how comforting is that?) They said that if they
> tested him he wouldn’t qualify for SPED so their solution to
> the whole situation was to retain him in the 1/2 day kinder
> program !!!! I was so mad all I could do was cry. There were
> no interventions this year in order to catch him up, except
> for me tutoring him at home nightly. ( I taught 1st grade
> for 8 years, thank God I had that experience.) I had him
> privately tested and got some feedback over the phone. I
> don’t have the report in hand but basically was told that the
> diag. used the Wisc-III and the Woodcock. He had a
> performance IQ of 110 and Verbal IQ of 117. She said his
> performance IQ was somewhat compromised by his lack of fine
> motor skills and he showed a deficit in coding. Also, she
> said he scored a 9 in coding with 8-12 being average, but
> based on his performance in the other subtests and his IQ
> that was certainly a deficit area and should be addressed by
> special education since it was severely limiting his
> learning. The diag. said that a 1/2 day Kindergarten
> placement was out of the question for my son because of his
> verbal abilities. I am concerned about the fine motor issues
> and the paper pencil workload of 1st grade. I was told by
> the district SPED department that he couldn’t receive OT
> unless he was labeled SPED and they couldn’t label him until
> at least 3 interventions have been tried and failed. I have
> requested that he be put in a 1st grade program next year
> with support. I am so frightened that the school will fail
> to provide adequate support for him to be successful. My
> little guy is not bad enough to qualify, but not in good
> enough shape to pass even Kindergarten. Does anyone have any
> advice? I really am in need of some objective opinions.
> Thanks!

Advocating Mom,

As a mother of a six year old girl with APD and also a special ed. teacher, I totally understand where you are. My child, like yours, also shows the potential for an LD, but the scores are not yet there to qualify her for services. Let me say that I read at least half these posts but finally gave up and just decided to write you myself, so forgive me if I am repeating someone else.

If your child is having difficulty with the sound-symbol relationship, you absolutely need to request a speech-language evaluation immediately. There are tests and subtests that will pick up on poor phonemic awareness. If your child scores very low in the auditory subtests, then you may need an APD evaluation by an audiologist who specializes in APD. If you can get a S/L label, you might be able to get an OT eval as well (and OT as a related service).

The thing I most want to tell parents of potential dyslexic children is…never, never count on the school to remediate your child. Public education is geared for the average child and those on other ends of the spectrum rarely get what they need. A dyslexic child will need a very specialized multi-sensory language program on an individual basis. You are not going to get those at school. I’d immediately go for an evaluation somewhere like a Lindamood-Bell Clinic and then consider LiPS or even Phono-Graphix. (We used a university clinic for reading/language eval and APD). You could do the PG at home fairly easily as a matter of fact. Some people like Orton-Gillingham, but I think it has too many rules for a young child to remember (especially if they have memory problems). Have you asked your pediatrician if he’d refer your child for an OT evaluation? I also agree with someone earlier who said to go ahead and order Handwriting Without Tears and do it at home. It was created by an OT. I also like Earobics 1…very good for many auditory skills including phonemic awareness, discrimination, and memory.

I am currently trying to decide whether to retain my child in first grade. She was the youngest in the class anyway, and I wonder if she would benefit from repeating Saxon phonics and having a year to develop further. She receives speech therapy three times a week for phonemic awareness, auditory skills, etc. I am waiting for some test results to help me decide.

Personally, I would not retain in K unless the child is very immature. If they are not, then I’d go on to first. I think the people above are correst that your child does not yet have the scores to get LD placement. And I still say, if you want remediation, you need to look outside the school and very soon. Keep your relationship at the school as positive as possible and work towards getting the S/L label to get modifications for him (just don’t wait on them to do real remediation).

Good luck to you!

Janis

Please tell me that neither of you teach in Massachusetts?? You are the reason my son will never attend public school!!

Just because you can not look at a child with a learning disability and actually see the disability doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

I was just wondering if your family doctore told you, “Well Steve or Charlene, you child is really ill, but I am not going to treat them, let’s just wait it out! After all when I look at you, you seem relatively healthy!! Yes, this illness will affect your every day life, it is going to make your job very difficult. Just work harder and well, it probably won’t help but hey it’s worth a try. At least you won’t be bothering anyone else!! Good Luck to ya, and come see when the pain is so bad you can barely function!!”

I am so sure you would just say, “O.K.” and go about your daily life. I know you will come back with some witty response, just do me a favor when that day comes, that all this learning disability stuff comes to you in a personal way, remember my post!!

Why exactly are you posting and reading on this bulletin board?? You seem to have all the answers!

K.

Well said!

We need to remediate ourselves looking at all the programs available that actually work!

Why don’t the schools know that so many of their programs don’t work? They can say they don’t have the money to remediate but surely it would be cheaper and more cost efficient to focus on programs that have some scientific basis for their existance.

Surely there is enough evidence that early intervention is crucial. Why would so many educators reply with a wait and see approach?

Truely amazing.

Janis,

Great post. I was curious if you could elaborate more on the differences between Orton-Gillingham and Lindamood-Bell. My son does have memory issues and I was not aware that OG would not be a good match for these kids. Very interesting and glad I happened to open your post.

Thank you very much both Linda and little lulu.:-)

Even though I have been in special ed. for years and frustrated that children were not making the progress they should, I did not know that there really were programs out there that WERE actually effective IF done right (intensive and preferably one-on-one). Orton Gillingham was really the only one I knew about, but we were not given the training and materials to use in the school system. I mainly taught hearing impaired children (also LD certified) and the consensus had been for years to teach HI children by sight words (big mistake).

So when I suspected APD in our youngest child and eventually had that diagnosis confirmed, I began reading the reading research and this bulletin board to help me find out if there really were any successful methods out there. I knew my child was a potential future LD child. This year in first grade, my daughter had been taught using Saxon phonics, which actually is one of the best regular systematic phonics programs available. However, it went a little fast for my daughter, and she really did not master the “advanced code”. She did fine with the sounds that are represented by one letter. She has difficulty decoding words with 4 or more sounds which I attribute to poor auditory or short term memory. This, of course, shows up in her language testing as well.

I narrowed down the “best” programs to OG based programs, Phono-Graphix, and Lindamood-Bell. I was told by the university reading clinic I took her to that her phonemic awareness while low, was not low enough to necessitate needing Lindamood-Bell LiPS. As I explored OG, I realized that the core of OG is teaching a child rules and more rules. Now for a very bright child with excellent memory, that may be wonderful. I just didn’t think it would work for my child due to the fact that Saxon is somewhat based on OG and the rules she was given in Saxon were almost totally meaningless to her. For example, there were 4 rules to help you remember whether a word should end with -k, -ck, -ke, or c!!! My goodness! I can’t even remember that! (Yet I do know how to spell well!).

Phono-Graphix contends that it is not necessary to know the rules. The child can be taught the symbols which go with the sounds of our language without rules. There are too many exceptions to the rules anyway for the rules to be all that helpful. With PG, a child is taught a sound and then all the possible sound pictures (letter combinations) that can represent that sound. It is just much simpler and more on a young child’s cognitive level, in my opinion.

So, you now see the process that I worked through to make the best possible decision for my child. The principal at her school, the LD teacher, and I went to a PG training session in April. I want to use it with my hearing impaired students. I will also take the Lindamood-Bell workshop for Visualizing and Verbalizing this summer…the best program out there to help with comprehension.

Let me add one thing. I am paying for every penny of all this training myself. My school system is not helping me AT ALL. So that is why I am telling you all that you should not count on the schools to use these “best” programs. The training is expensive and most teachers will not have access. I am thankful that I will be a better teacher having done all this research and training. And again, children need intervention earlier than the law will allow them to be labelled LD. These problems are best remediated outside of school. That way, another advantage is that the child does not miss classroom instruction to be pulled out by a resource teacher (who possibly has too many students and too few effective methods). I prefer using an IEP for modifications at school and get the remediation on the outside…but that is just my opinion based on my experiences and reading those of others.

Janis

Janis,

Thanks again for you opinion. We are very much on the same page with these issues. My son received a full year of “reading help” from the reading recovery teacher. He couldn’t read AT ALL. This had to be a very expensive program to implement yet the success rate was around 50%.
I did phonographix with him myself last summer and he now reads slightly above grade level.

Janis you don’t mind if I nominate you to go to Washington to help them figure out why our children can not read;)

Programs like handwriting without tears can also be done at home without costing a fortune. A parent with some knowledge and a little patience CAN accomplish alot.

Linda,

It certainly is encouraging to me to find others who relate! Honestly, I just took my daughter to speech and I asked the SLP if any of the SLP’s will be going tot he Lindamood Bell training in June (offered only 45 minutes away). She said one person will probably go. I said then I want that person working with my child the next year at school! The school may experiment with PG this summer and I will, too. But I know she needs some consistency in SOME research based program if we are to really remediate. (My child really is borderline…she is the type that would have been overlooked if I had not seen her symptoms and requested testing).

Again, the sad part is that my school district has no interest in these programs. They will just sit and wait until the state gives them directions to implement something new. I should clarify that my daughter goes to a Charter school which is providing her with one-on-one speech/language therapy, and she would not be able to have this at the public schools where I teach. The charter school contracts with private SLP’s so they are free to recommend truly appropriate services.

Janis

As I posted in another thread, O-G is expressly and explicitly designed with kids with memory issues in mind.

O-G training involves a lot of work on figuring out how an individual child’s mind processes information, and teaching to the strengths while working on the weaknesses. IT also explicitly teaches what programs such as PG leave the child to intuit, and teaches things until they are automatic. This is a bit counter-intuitive… unless you’ve worked with the kids. I sure fought it at first but I couldn’t argue with the results I saw (especially the way the most thorough teachers kept getting the best results).

I”ve heard some of the negative things the PG authors have to say about O-G’s multisensory activities and “rules, rules, rules.” I would humbly but strongly disagree with that perspective.

Sue,

I certainly am glad to hear your opinion. Since I have not taught through either type of program yet, my opinion is limited. But I watched an hour of Susan Barton teaching something…maybe multi-syllable instruction?…and I just felt that the rules were inappropriate for a 6 year old. I fully understood what she was teaching, but I knew it would be meaningless to my child because she would not remember the rules and may not understand them to begin with. I think if you are tutoring a 10 or 12 year old, then I think they might could handle the rules. I do think the developmental level of the child is a factor in which program is best. Personally, I’d try the PG first. If that didn’t work, then go to one of the OG based programs.

Janis

>we don’t test until at least mid grade 2 because for there to be considered a problem, they have to be 2 years behind. when you haven’t been in school, you can’t be 2 years behind in acadmenics.<

You are so WRONG!!!!! You sound like my son’s first grade teacher. My son had a private MD eval that said he needed to be monitored for LD when he was 4 years old. They waited for him to fail (in second grade) then I waited for the school to fail by fourth grade. Now in fifth grade I have a non-profit Special Ed salivating over a due process hearing. My son started out 2 years behind in second grade and kept falling behind in spite of resourse.
Has it ever occured to you that many LD kids learn SLOWER? To wait until they are 2 years behind and THEN try to catch them up? How logical is that?
While the rest of the class is reading to learn they are still learning to read and they miss out on so much material and it puts then further behind and they feel stupid. Early intervention has proven to work and to deny any child this right is heartless. PS the big red flad of LD is delayed speech! This can be picked up as early as 18 months!

Wow, it seems that there is some misunderstanding here. I think most of us agree that early intervention is best. As I said in my reply to this thread below, a parent should NOT count on the school to remediate a LD and should seek outside help WAAAY before the school will place LD.

But the person you are attacking, Robin, is telling you what FEDERAL LAW dictates. There must be a discrepancy between ability and achievement and that will vary from state to state. But most first graders will NOT qualify for LD even if they are truly dyslexic because the 15 to 22 point discrepancy usually can’t be obtained that early. That is why the person posted that their school usually doesn’t test until second grade.

As an aside, I spoke with one of our school diagnosticians today, and she said the new WJ-III is testing kids a little on the high side and fewer kids are qualifying than before! She said anyone consdering a re-eval should opt out of re-testing unless they wany to take the chance of the child losing services.

I absolutely agree with you about language delays and later LD’s. But you need to vent your outrage and frustration toward the federal government and get the laws changed to favor earlier intervention instead of focusing it on the school which is probably following the laws of the state and federal government. My child is one of the ones you are talking about, 6 years old, APD and language delay, but not legally LD yet. So I am getting the best therapy for her outside of school and have educated some of the school personnel about effective methods so that they have already taken Phono-Graphix training and will take some Lindamood-Bell training in June. This will not only help my child, but it will help all the kids in the school. (She can have services with her S/L impaired label). This is how I have chosen to make positive change in the quickest possible way.

Janis

I do not mean to attack anyone. The person posting did not quote any ferderal law altho I fully aware of the direction you are trying to take regarding descrepancies in scores. The part of the post that really gets me is:

>especially little boys, take longer to mature and be ready to
do the work. one of the problems with the school systems is trying to teach kids before they are ready. read up on piaget to know what i mean! part of this
maturing also explains why so many little boys are diagnosed as adhd. i have classes of little boys that could all be put on drugs if the people around them were
irresponsible. the good thing is that none are on meds and they are respected and valued and taught, keeping their special behavior needs in mind!<

I am so tired of little boys being stereotyped! I am also well versed in Piaget’s therories (I have a minor in developmental psych) however Piaget was not an expert on LD and his threories go right out the window on LD kids.

You have a daughter, How would you like it if a teacher said that just was just slower because she was female. Wouldn’t that teacher be violating a fed law on sex discrimnation?

We have had many well meaning classroom teachers who have been sympathetic but so undertrained. As a parent who is trying to get the most basic skills taught to my child, I really get tired of being talked to in a polite patronizing fashion. I realize many parents may not know as much. But the parents who are proactive and educate themselves are still patronized. I brought an pediatric neuropsychologist from Yale into my son’s IEP and everyone appeared to listen to her and then acted like a deer caught in the headlights when we suggested changes to the IEP. In this district, the only time they act is when an advocate/lawyer shows up. Only then will they scramble.

BTW federal law also says the district has to consider independent evaluation. I had one in my hand and they still refused my request SDC for over one year and later for assessment for the next two years! I the mean time I got the “its to early, he’s a boy” lecture.

Robin,

I’m sorry. I know you have had a hard time. As another parent who knows more than many other school staff, I understand what you are saying. I have always been able to spot kids who I think are pre-LD. Although I will have to add this, my older daughter did have a problem with the letter “r” in kindergarten and the SLP told me she would recheck her in first becuase many children natuarlly outgrow this. And guess what? With no therapy, she naturally started saying the sound correctly and never needed speech. So there is a valid basis for thinking that some kids develop later than others.

On the other hand, my youngest child who I’ve already described, still does not have the “r” sound at the end of first grade. Of course, that was one of the things put on her S/L IEP this year.

But the real advantage of me knowing more has been that I have been able to get what my child needs mostly through her S/L placement. I also had test results at age 4 that indicated an auditory processing problem but she was too young to get accurate test results for that. As you said, the language delay is a prime warning signal for future LD. But really, I am able to get exactly what my child needs right now through her placement as S/L impaired.

I really think there are very few good LD programs. Most states set caseload limits very high for resource teachers. In my state they can have 30! So it is very obvious that these teachers are really doing very little intensive one-on-one work. And as I have said elsewhere, they are rarely given the right training and therapy materials. Things like OG and LB are best done individually. Now there are a few exceptional teachers on this board and scattered here and there who have gone out and obtained this training and their students are a lucky few! So for the most part, I think it is a waste of time to try to get LD services from the school. I get my child’s needed modifications through her S/L IEP. I guess I have been very fortuanate in that I’ve gotten most of what I’ve asked for from her school, but I’ve never asked for anything beyond what she legally qualifies for either. Oh, and I have purchased therapy materials and donated them to the school if they did not have something I wanted used with her.

Janis

Janis,

I can relate! I have come to understand that I needed to temper my expectations for my school district.
I bought the phonograpix book and gave it to my sons teacher. Nothing ever came of it. My son did amazingly well with that program when I did it with him .
My son is also truely borderline. He actually is twice exceptional in my opinion. He has always had an extemely good understanding of complex ideas and an adults vocabulary. His IQ isn’t extremely high because he has some memory issues along with a visual learning deficit that affects most other areas.
His vocabulary tested in the 96%.

I grabbed the attention of our districts head of special ed at an open house last night. He is responsible for placement of teachers for next year. I explained my child’s need for a creative teacher. One who will allow him to express his gifts while helping to remediate his deficits. He was very receptive. I could see a lightbulb go off in his head and he said “I think I know just what will work for Chris.”
It was funny when I told him Chris was reading very well he seemed so surprised. I really wanted to get into it with him about how the school had failed to teach him how to read and that I did it myself. I wanted to push for phonographix in the schools. I thought better of that approach realizing that a confrontation could hinder my chances of getting the best teacher.
I could have gone on and on with a bunch of complaints but chose to focus on one goal….. getting him the right teacher. I think it worked.

My school district isn’t all bad they did adopt Handwriting without tears which has helped alot. I also got lucky with a fantastic OT. I think rather than fighting the system (an impossible battle) one has to work to find the best of the system and use it to their advantage.
Also take on the tasks they are not doing yourself if you can. Get outside help as much as possible.

I realize this approach won’t work for some because of a variety of reasons but it is the best I can do for my child at this time.

I haven’t finished pushing for phonographix. I think I will email my new friend about it after the placement issue is worked out. In a friendly enthusiastic manner of course.

Where can I find the phonograpix book?

K.

We must be soul sisters or something, Linda! Your approach is exactly the same as mine. Get the best possible for my child, and hopefully it will benefit other children, too. The things that are not possible, I’ll get outside the school. I 100% agree that you did the right thing with getting the teacher issue settled first. If we bombard them with too many things at one time, usually some of the things will be lost. Positive change happens over time. And if it is really positive, it will be lasting change. My child will be the first they have to try PG on and LB. Yes, that is not ideal but it is a great beginning. And I’ll be the first in my district to use PG to my knowledge. We have to start somewhere!

Janis

The title of the book is “Reading Reflex” by Carmen and Geoffrey McGuinness. Any major bookstore can order it for you, and Amazon has it at a discounted price of around $12 if you order over the internet.

Janis

Sorry, It is reading reflex.

I think it is silly they have a different name for their program phonographix, their book reading reflex and their website Errr I forget. Not good marketing in my humble opinion.

Too much for my tired brain.

But it is a great program

Yes sis,

I think he actually liked talking to me. He didn’t have that frightened, how do I get away from this person look. LOL

I think that could benefit my child in the future also I could use that link to orchestrate positive change within the system.

I have been known to blow my top on occasion. Emotions can really get the best of you when your child is involved. I have to keep my eye on the best way to attain my goals for him.

I am also working the system on the other end. I am trying to get insurance to cover the cost of interactive metronome. I was really trying hard to be nice to the person from oxford when she wouldn’t let me talk to medical management to discuss why my child needs it. They make it hard hoping you will give up. I don’t give up easily.
I will continue to plug away at that one but may have to pay out of pocket.

Oh gosh, insurance companies are the most frustrating of all! You have to persevere even to speak to a live human!

Janis

Your welcome.

Janis,
What you said made so much sense to me. I had already decided to just get all the help I could outside the school. It is rediculous and a very sad state of affairs for all the children with parents are not knowledgeable about LD’s or programs that would help their children. I know I can move my child,heck I’ve moved other peoples’ children why not my own. My son has been accepted for testing at Scottish Rite Hospital in Dallas. They say it can take up to 8 months just to get an appointment. We’ve gone 3 already so not too many left. They use OG and people sing their praises around here. My son has an amazing memory, especially for rules so I think OG might actually work for him, however I can’t wait that long to start intervention. I’m going to buy the Phonographix book and work with him this summer, also I’m buying Handwriting without tears, couldn’t hurt my little 4 year old to begin with that too. (Little boy, April birthday….I can see this all happening again in 2 years.) Although he is actually already recognizing some of his letters and writing with the correct grip. And coloring, Halleluja! Your advice was great and I think Phonographix would be a wonderful “early intervention” for him. Oh and by the way my son is very mature for his age, I don’t know what the school is thinking, honestly I really don’t think they know my child. As a first grade teacher I always told parents that if there is a place to repeat, it is first grade. There are so many levels of teaching going on in a first grade classroom and in a repeated year different teaching is definately accomplished because you strengthen and build on the foundation you provided the year before. Well gotta go to Amazon and spend some $ for the most important student in my life. Thank you again for your advice!

Ad. Mom,

You are so welcome! It sounds like you have some great plans! Actually, you remind me a lot of myself! I had recommended to a mom just a few days ago that she try the Scottish Rite Clinics in her state since they have good programs at reasonable prices. Most people simply cannot afford some of the very high priced programs that are popular. However, you may very well find that PG does the trick. You may make great progress before you even get to the clinic!

I have a Handwriting Without Tears book and I like it very much. Next year, the first grade teacher will use it for the whole class. I talked to her today and she does want my little girl to repeat. As it is, she is the youngest in her current class and the teacher hates to see her always be a follower. She thinks the extra year to strengthen her reading skills will build her confidence and make her much stronger going into second the following year. I am very close to agreeing to that recommendation. I have said the same exact words as you did above…first grade is THE grade to repeat. It’s just a little scary when you are making the decision for your own child! But it helped me to hear your opinion about that, too. So thanks! And I hope all goes well for your little boy!

Janis

Yes they are trying to wear me down.

Now oxford says I have to see their pediatric neurologist before I can get ot. Surprise surprise the pediatric neurologist they want me to see doesn’t have an appointment until october.

They think they will win this little game of cat and mouse. I play on……

dghj

kj